Top-3 dribblers of each era

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Gregoire1, Mar 17, 2023.

  1. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Just checking back through that attempt again: Safet Susic rather than Rummenigge I think actually probably. I'd possibly consider Michael Laudrup again as the back-up 1991-1994 idea too instead of Baggio (or it might be 'M.Laudrup at some points' in that period and/or the one before where I put B.Laudrup instead.....like I said 'Hazard at some points' later...having chosen Hazard as a main option for a short time too of course).

    Like I hinted at before it could be I'd be slotting a Kempes in somewhere mid to late 70s, or ditto a Rensenbrink (potentially from earlier), but they missed out marginally in the shuffle I guess. I'm not sure whether Faas Wilkes could enter again, at least as the back-up option (not forgetting Matthews could still be a contender too for example though), in the mid 50s once he'd gone to Valencia. I know he was highly rated there and I guess it had plenty to do with dribbling, but without decent footage it's hard to say. I guess for the whole period 1959-1966 Florian Albert wouldn't be too far away (and Bene too for some of that and a bit later I think), but it seemed obvious to put Garrincha as a second option for 1959-1964 and at least give Sivori a mention before that point in that case. Jairzinho vs Albert for 1964-1966 I really wouldn't be sure about, from what I know/saw....
     
  2. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I'm thinking about Ernesto Grillo potentially too, and maybe if I'd just stuck to not specifically mentioning Matthews for any period, I would have suggested Grillo for 1951-1953 in that alternative selection list I guess....
     
    anamnesis del fútbol repped this.
  3. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  4. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015


    A good example of how Opta does a bad job of compiling their stats and / or reflecting what is actually going on in game.
    Anybody can see that this is a very positive dribbling performance and yet the numbers they publish would not suggest that (2 dribbles credited).
     
  5. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #181 carlito86, May 4, 2024
    Last edited: May 4, 2024
    Over 20 years ago

    F0042938-DA24-4510-B72D-9B8846A85B30.jpeg



    And from 2008/09
    DF2EF138-9120-4BC9-816F-CDA3882C9BF1.jpeg
    C5F5823E-4D13-4DFB-8A96-4D66B80763E5.jpeg

    UEFA released a snippet of this on Twitter


    one of those assists not credited by the ‘experts’ right at the end of the comp

    these new sofascore releases are interesting to say the least

    Ronaldinho in his CL career never had a single performance rated 9 or above

    the highest in 2005/06 was 8.5(Chelsea)

    the legendary performances Vs Milan we were told for 20 years that no one could touch
    D4962B5F-F20C-4EFB-9D14-BF33402BBE57.jpeg
    57ACDA58-466C-4695-9F0B-F47E651E1094.jpeg

    myths are being eradicated with hard cold data/facts

    Ronaldinho for me is the 3rd greatest Brazilian of the champions league era

    after Neymar Jr and now Vinícius Jr

    the latter is the second best player of his generation after Kylian Mbappe IMO
    With the finishing ability of Kylian Mbappe he would literally be untouchable
    That’s the next step for him that he can hopefully take

    2 or 3 years ago I don’t believe there is a single person who could’ve predicted that Vinicius would’ve progressed in the way he has.
    His composure in front of goal frustrates me to no end but there is time on his hands to amend that (fingers crossed).
     
  6. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Based on what do you praise Vinicius so highly?
     
  7. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Stop using sofascore ratings like it's an argument of anything lmao.
     
  8. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    If sofascore was a source that painted an extremely favourable picture of zinedine zidane

    it wouldn’t just be an “argument” you would use

    you would literally live and die by it my friend
    Let’s not play games here
     
    lessthanjake repped this.
  9. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Wrong, Carlito. I've been consistent throughout on this matter. If you know one thing about football, you would understand that a thied party equation says nothing about the sport.
    What's crazy is I am one of the few here that actually praises Cristiano consistently... I just think the way you are making your point is weak.
     
  10. lessthanjake

    lessthanjake Member+

    May 9, 2015
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    To be fair, I don’t think that’s right. I think you’ve missed the 9.7 score against Udinese in September 2005.
     
  11. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Yes I missed it

    his overall average was 7.725

    Lower than Neymar when he reached the deep stages(SF and/or final)
    His 2015/16 and 2016/17 campaigns

    A lot lower than cristiano in 2013/14
    8.51

    No need to even bring Messi into this

    Ronaldinho averaged 3 dribbles per 90 in the 2005/06 CL btw
    Not the 25 per 90 some were dreaming of here
     
  12. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Nobody ever claimed Ronaldinho was a UCL killer.
     
  13. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    What:ROFLMAO:
     
  14. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Show us. You are arguing with a ghost. He has high profile matches. But there are many, many, many players with better European legacies.
    Ronaldinho's legacy is mostly built on the fact that the level at which he played for about 3 years made people think this may be the greatest footballer of all time. His legacy was how dominant he was with a football. And he won everything under the sun.
     
  15. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015


    Can someone spot the "7 dribbles" claimed by Sofascore / Opta?
     
  16. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #192 carlito86, May 5, 2024
    Last edited: May 5, 2024
    Football comps with all the players individual actions are rarely to be found on YouTube

    if they are they are then they will either be cropped or just heavily edited to prevent them being taken down(mainly due to YouTubes strict copyright rules)

    another thing to take into consideration..
    The guys who are analysing 100s of matches and thousands of individual actions are not relying on what some guy on YouTube choses to upload

    they have access to full games

    In any case here are your 7 opta dribbles
    0:56
    1 dribble

    5:23
    1 dribble

    6:52
    1 dribble

    7:21
    1 dribble

    8:12
    1 dribble

    9:20-9:30
    2 dribbles

    the data analyst in this case doesn’t care for what you or I deems to be an effective or skilful dribble.
    Every successful dribble is counted the same

    if Messi( or Micheal Jackson or tony soprano or Donald trump)successfully evades his marker on a football field and retains possession of the ball in the immediate aftermath of that dribble
    Then that my friend is a dribble

    it just is
    there are no feelings or biases here

    as an example
    Ronaldinho vs Arsenal 2006 doesn’t immediately spring to mind when thinking of him at his dribbling best
    The thing is the myth and romanticism(which is the polar opposite of data)works for Ronaldinho and it works against him too

    he was expected by the casual fan to deliver in a different way and because he didn’t the casual fan was not concentrating on how many times Ronaldinho evaded his marker(which was a lot)

    the algorithm has no emotional attachment towards dinho or should I say ‘expectations’ of what Ronaldinho vs Arsenal 2006 should or shouldn’t be doing.
    It simply analyses him based on what he did or didn’t do.
     
  17. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  18. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    If 9:20, and 6:52 are dribbles, then I think the criticism about side or backward dribbling in the other thread does not hold any more weight.
     
  19. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Cole Palmer already has the same number of 10s on Sofascore as Cristiano, counting only national leagues
     
    SayWhatIWant repped this.
  20. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    Seriously. No serious football commentator would ever refer to Sofascore ratings as some sort of argument about anything.

    You think Pep and Mourinho are checking Sofascore ratings?
     
  21. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Counting only National leagues?

    sofascore hasn’t rated a single league performance of cristiano in
    2003/04
    2004/05
    2005/06
    2006/07
    2009/10
    2010/11
    2011/12
    2012/13
    2013/14
    2014/15



    one league game rated from 2007/08
    The Newcastle home game where he scored a hattrick(9.6 according to sofascore)

    and 2 or so league games from 2008/09

    so there are huge swathes of data missing from sofascores database as it pertains to cristianos league career

    over 10 seasons worth

    I don’t know why you limit it to National leagues though and I don’t know why you casually ignore the fact cristianos entire peak as a domestic league great isn’t covered by sofascore
    Literally I’d go as far as to say his entire peak as a legendary “National league” performer isn’t covered by sofascore


    Cristiano 2015/16 to 2022/23 was not a legendary league performer BTW
    Legendary in the champions league only


    sometimes(rarely) the form crossed over but it was never sustained





    just for the record and as another side point
    Cole palmer in his career(all comps)has four performances rated 9 or above

    3 of them are 10s
    And one barely above 9
    That’s the entire picture for him

    That’s the same number of performances rated 9 or above as cristiano had in 2021/22.
    Aged 38

    in terms of seasonal league averages
    Cole palmer is rated 7.71

    cristiano according to sofascore had higher ratings in
    la liga 2015/16=7.86
    La liga 2017/18=7.90
    Serie A 2019/20=7.74

    and everything he did at league level between 2003/04-2014/15 isn’t even covered

    Cole palmer isn’t going to help zidane here
    Only zidane will
     
  22. SayWhatIWant

    SayWhatIWant Member+

    Jan 10, 2015
    You made this convo about me an zidane? are you serious right now. Touch grass my friend. Literally.
    Again, do Pep and Mourinho refer to Sofascore to judge players?
     
  23. lessthanjake

    lessthanjake Member+

    May 9, 2015
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    #199 lessthanjake, May 5, 2024
    Last edited: May 5, 2024
    On the Messi 2014 video, I don’t think 9:20 would count as a dribble (since he went backwards), but my guess is that 5:11 was counted (though I think it’s borderline). And 6:52 was horizontal rather than vertical dribbling, but dribbling horizontally past your marker and into the box seems like it very likely was counted. But who knows, since we don’t really know OPTA’s exact internal decision-making guidelines/precedent.
     
  24. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    9:25-9:30

    two players are dribbled past
    Clearly
     

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