What makes you such an expert on their background, and have such a laser focused esoteric interest in the matter? Just stumbled upon some random obscure website and decided to go on a crusade about it? Cameroon have certainly cheated in age group events before but they left for Tanzania years before they would have been on any national team radar for Cameroon so I don't think that's relevant. They could have forged paperwork but then you could say that for just about any African immigrant really
There isn't a single word about the Nkoto twins in my comment. I don't know anything about them. Give sources for your claims and I'll read them, but if you can't be bothered then I can't either.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised at all if the twins are older than they say. Pretty sure there were reports that their dad has a murky background in African business as well. To be clear, I'm only saying I wouldn't be surprised if they were, not that they are.
It was their grandfather. He was the head of Cameroon’s largest telecoms company but was found to be guilty of corruption I believe. But the interesting thing about the twins, if they are guilty of age fraud, is that most cases happen with players of a poorer background. Either they were born in areas without access to proper medical records or agents find them on the street and take advantage. But from what I can tell from the Nkotos, they’re probably fairly well off. Their mum, for example, was partially educated in England, did a masters here and still works in the country, while I imagine their grandfather was pretty wealthy too.
Rounding up Camp 3 names so far Joshua Abe (Liverpool) Lennon Asif (Middlesbrough) Lucca Benneton (Crystal Palace) Jacey Carrick (Man Utd) Jacob Dako (Chelsea) Kynan Duffy (Southampton) Trey Faromo (Chelsea) Jayden Garthwaite (Aston Villa) Isaak Gulliver (West Brom) Remi Harvey (Derby County) George Jobling (Chelsea) Finley Lapper (Charlton) Jayden Koussou (Newcastle) Mishel Nduka (Charlton) Samson Omoregie (Reading) Jovan Wamani (Plymouth) Les Yeutembip (Newcastle) + Jack ??? (Leicester) Probably half a dozen more or so there.
You can flip that though. Cameroon is 140/180 with a 27/100 score in the Global Perceptions Corruption Index i.e. a highly corrupt country. If their family is involved in Cameroon at government level they'd be well placed to get hold of new passports.
https://www.imghippo.com/i/iFvl4329BM.jpg https://www.imghippo.com/i/d7525de.jpg https://www.imghippo.com/i/O3634.jpg https://www.imghippo.com/i/gbD7671uk.jpg The top image is when United brought the twins in aged 10 before they had the paperwork training with private coach Eden. Next one is a picture taken for Cameroon club AS Nylon with Kelvin Pius John born 2003. Kelvin now plays in the Danish super league. They would in effect be 7 years different in year groups. The last pics of from 3 years ago when they were supposedly 11 when they signed with the last image Basirrou when he was supposedly 11 in 2021. If people want to believe these are children of primary school age good luck to ya. FYI David Emane Nkoto was a corrupt telecoms mogul who was under house arrest.
That first picture of them aged 10! Wow! I mean if it’s totally legit then there’s no way they are 10 years old. Not sure you need a test to see that but surely people at Utd wouldn’t be fooled so easily?
Yes that's a fact. Was taken September 2020 when they were 10. They signed a few months later in the pictures when they were 11 in 2021 and won the Albert Phelan for the u14s that same year. All this can be found online easily enough.
The only surprising thing about age fraud is that people are surprised it happens. "football age" has been a phenomenon in Africa for decades (and something similar is apparently widespread in Indian junior cricket). It's why MRI scanning was introduced by FIFA. As intercontinental crossborder movement becomes more common it was bound to find its way into English (and European) academy football. it's relatively easy to do and the advantages are huge (a decent grassroots u14 player will be better than at least 95% of u12 academy players). the potential financial rewards if it comes off and the kid makes it into the pro ranks are enormous. and even if they don't, consider the other rewards along the way eg private schooling, free kit, prestige. Very tempting, even if you are the head of a Telecoms company. And to that point it's been an open secret for years in the north west that 2 of the biggest clubs have over aged foreign born players, allegedly.
Did a bit of digging and I might have found pretty definitive proof of the Nkoto twins + William Gueke's identities & ages being false. Photo here of Bassirou Nkoto from 2019 where he appears to be called 'Mba', a fairly common surname in Cameroon and Africa in general. Then this photo of the three of them playing in an U13 match from August 2018 when, according to the ages they use now, they would've been 7 years old. Reminder that William Gueke played for England U16s yesterday against The Netherlands..
And WG was allegedly born in November 2010 which qualifies him for the u14 (school year) age group in English domestic football. When in reality he is maybe 17. What is surprising is that the FA don't see through this. But the pressure on the England coaches and staff to win games, even at a junior level, must be such that they are prepared to turn a blind eye. Personally i'm not surprised that some academies accept it. Academy football is increasingly about performance/results rather than development. Especially when your owners want a return on their investment and won't be satisfied with "ok so our u14s lost 10 nil to Chelsea at the weekend, but don't worry a couple out of that age group could be really good in 5 years time.." So the temptation to cheat a bit must be big, particularly if you think others are doing it.
I potentially found even more damning evidence regarding William Gueke. The lighting on the photo isn't great but it looks like him IMO. If true it would mean he's actually 17.
With Moukoko he was at least playing so far up he was around his real age. Maybe not the hyper wonderkid his alleged age suggested but a decent level pro all the same. I think the twins are playing in their alleged age group for England and if they are actually a few years older then they're probably not that good.
Can we take the age discussion elsewhere @BarryfromEastenders? Derailing this thread now. Zach Benjamin from Sheffield United also there.
Please use this new thread if you want to continue the age eligibility issue debate. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/age-eligibility-issues-in-youth-football-discussion.2133585/
Will England be playing Belgium next month? That has been the usual first set of fixtures at this level for the last few years. Thanks to those who keep track on which players have been selected. I don't think a complete list has been posted, so here is my attempt. 2010 selections (Move your mouse to reveal the content) 2010 selections (open) 2010 selections (close) Arsenal: Emerson Nwaneri, Charlie Phillips, Zach van der Straaten Aston Villa: Josh Blake, Alvin Brown, Jayden Garthwaite, Murphy Iyeli, Oscar Johnson, Heaven Kilwa, Olly Lloyd, Vincent Mudame Barnsley: Joshua Kenchington Birmingham: Alfie Smith Blackpool: Cian Pawson Bolton: Sonny Coyne Bournemouth: Aidan Guanchez, Zachary? Bristol City: Cooper Covington Bristol Rovers: Raffi Budd, Zane Donaghy, Hugo Blake Burton: Alfie Bedlow Carlisle: Josh Wade Charlton: Finley Lapper, Theo Laronde, Mishel Nduka Chelsea: Jacob Dako, Trey Faromo, Heze Grimwade, Josh Henry, George Jobling, Tom McDermott, Jake Murray, Mahdi Nicoll-Jazuli, Reggie Watson Coventry: Tyler Brophy Crewe: Joel Ewusi Crystal Palace: Lucca Benneton Derby: Remi Harvey Everton: Jake Doughty, Jon Nsangou, Levi Okorie Fulham: Ayo Adebanjo, Kayden Sessegnon Gillingham: Luca Procopi, Alfie Williams Grimsby: Harry? Leicester: Jack Hames, Olly Holmes, Darren Motsi Leyton Orient: Marley Gabbidon Liverpool: Joshua Abe, Shadrach Ekiugbo, Vincent Joseph, Ruben Savvas Luton: Harrison Dunn Manchester City: Theo Carrington, David Eze, William Gueke, Batista Inedqui, Isaac McGillvary Manchester United: Jacey Carrick, JJ Gabriel, Billy Hartley, Bassirou/Douka Nkoto, Pharell Silvester Middlesbrough: Lennon Asif, Tom Dean, Billy Linacre Newcastle: Jayden Koussou, Lesecond Yeutembip Northampton: Bobby Ashton, Rudy Gray Notts County: Elijah Green, Alfie Whitehead Oxford: Jeddeed Mohamed Bangura, Hayden Vaughan Plymouth: Jovan Wamani Port Vale: Theo Morgan Reading: Tyler Adjei, Luca Hollidge, Kanazawa Kanninda, Sam Omoregie Sheffield United: Zach Benjamin Southampton: Kynan Duffy Stevenage: Seb Chaudhuri Stoke: Zac Hudson, Tom Midwood Swindon: Briel Da Costa, Jack Dorland, Ashley Glynn, Ben Head, Zak Sowe Tottenham: Mikel Jack Walsall: Younusa Kanyi West Brom: Mo Ghanem, Isaak Gulliver West Ham: Dara Akinlolu, Emmanuel Fejokwu, Jude Longman, Samuel Osaseri-Ekhosuehi Might be the odd mistake there. Thomas Cox and Jack Parker were mentioned but not their specific team. Does Parker play for MK? The Bolton player has also been involved with Wales. FA may have to consider scheduling U15 International fixtures earlier in the season. Many UEFA Nations already started their U15 games for 2010 born players in 2024. Republic of Ireland hosted Australia U15 last week. JJ Gabriel was not in their squad but they did select defenders Ashton Gunning of Aston Villa and Sonny Peyton. Peyton from the Crewe academy attended a Wales camp in July. Not sure if it was mentioned at the time but apparently Benjamin scored twice in an intra squad match last month.