23 for March Nations League Window

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Maximum Optimal, Jan 22, 2024.

  1. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    I'm thinking more along the lines of:

    Berhalter/Ream = Arena/Agoos.
     
  2. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    I know, I know.

    I have this oddball idea that international play is a player's "side gig," not his full time job.

    I also have the view that caps are best as a reward for a player's club play.

    In sum, a player should be playing for his club, and playing well, in order to EARN the privilege of international caps. Some sort of meritocracy, rather than a strict hierarchical incumbency
     
  3. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    Hopefully Gregg doesn't make this mistake when it matters, since you may recall it was Berhalter who should have been (and later did end up) starting over Agoos at the time.
     
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  4. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    I wouldn't read too much into what this means for the striker depth chart. Being able to provide depth at the wide attacking position probably had a large influence on the selections of Sargent and Wright. Having said that, I think the first three on your list is spot on.
     
  5. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok so again snow me your lineup for this criteria!

    No Turner, Musah, Reyna, Pepi, Weah huh?
     
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  6. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    he was, for about 16 months of a 23 year career. that seems to be over, imo but we will see.

    you chose your names pretty wisely, though. i think ream, ccv and trusty are still comparable at this point. i dont know that mckenzie is ever going to put it together, hes a rung below for me (and sands is closer to long than this conversation).

    the issue is what we do about it. with ccv out i was really hoping we would see trusty, for a left-sided specialist at the very least. let ream groom his replacement, in a way (not that trusty has to be more than a 4th cb). admittedly mckenzie is two-footed to the point most think he is a lefty but hes just a cut below imo.

    we are in a tricky spot- we cant (and shouldnt) shove him towards a door until he makes it pretty clear with the nats (though the first match of the last window was notably poor), but we have to play him to find out...and then have a plan for the copa. i posted earlier one start here makes sense and we can evaluate from there but the thing is i dont think he does anything for us on the bench.

    its not form, or fit with him- its a question of his body still being able to do the job. if he gets exposed here i think we have to make the call before the copa. we could carry him for the friendlies, as i said, to help transition whoever in but personally i think its a problem if hes on that copa roster.

    maybe all that sitting at fulham gets him by, though, who knows?
     
  7. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    All of us believe it should be a meritocracy. What we have is a disagreement on how to assess merit.
     
  8. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Exactly.

    Using incumbency over merit has failed over and over and over again. For the USMNT, and for the USWNT.

    Clinging to his favorites is bad and dumb and almost always fails for a national team manager.
     
  9. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    The CB depth chart is pretty clear to me.

    1. Richards (by some margin)
    2. Ream (by a very small margin over Robinson)
    3. Robinson
    4. A bunch of other guys, none close to the top 3.

    Assuming all are healthy, I think we need to use the June friendlies and perhaps the group stage to assess the relative merits of Richards-Ream v Richards-Robinson as our best CB pairing.
     
  10. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    #760 Khan, Mar 17, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2024
    Jamaica are the textbook definition of "CONCACAF fodder." They are ranked 64, and are on the road.

    The USMNT are, once again, comfortably at home. They should easily, and comfortably prevail.

    So yeah, my view is that a player should play well for his club, BEFORE getting called in. And a player like Aaronson should stay with his club and solidify his spot, rather than take a callup at this point, for this glorified cash grab, at home, vs this opponent.

    So, no Reyna, no Turner, no anybody riding pine. Especially vs a weaker opponent, at home.

    Otherwise idiotic incumbency sets into the roster, to the detriment of the program.
     
  11. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    How, exactly does one assess a player's merit if he's like, NOT PLAYING?

    (I'm not attacking you in any way, I'm genuinely curious how one does that.)
     
  12. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    If everybody is healthy, then I send these 3 and Carter-Vickers to the Copa America. Zimmerman and McKenzie go to the Olympics. I see Trusty as the odd man out.
     
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  13. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Every player goes through periods they don't play or don't play much. 1 year without playing is different from 3 months which is different from 3 weaks.

    There are no absolutes, but rather a sliding scale.

    To say Gio is not playing ain't terribly informative.
     
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  14. JUnionFan

    JUnionFan Member+

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Sep 30, 2020
    Everyone's sliding scale is different but this made me interested and I looked at his career. Reyna's playing minutes:

    20-21 (age 17, clearly his breakout year): 1,976 minutes
    21-22: 439
    22-23: 625
    23-24 (Dortmund): 280
    23-24 (Nottingham): 0

    Make of that what you will.
     
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  15. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ok, we disagree. my primary concern though is his age, and we really disagree on that being relevant.

    im not sure where you are on the club vs country thing (im a heavy country lean relative to bs in general), but its not a matter of quality- no one thinks ream got bad at soccer. but fulham have decided he cant do the job anymore. its not just me speculating- hes looked shaky at best in his last few caps.

    there are 2 big things to factor in here- our lcb has to be able to cover, to some degree, the space jedi can leave at times; hes showing that he cant do that. the second is we dont have adams covering the backline.

    i think ream was very good in the world cup, but still overrated- because tyler was lights out unbelievable. its no coincidence we fell apart when he couldnt control our entire defensive 3rd. he was directly beaten once, but the defense was pulled apart and exposed because his legs could only do so much.

    so we have to re-evaluate how defensively capable he is (which has always been suspect) without that cover in addition to even less mobility, stamina, endurance, etc.

    i get the question marks around other players, and am pretty bummed that (i believe) miles has reached a point hes not going grow beyond but right now im not sure i would take ream over brooks outside of schedule, timing, etc. sure, its like trading in a totaled car for one with 200k miles, but he can go 90 minutes and cover the ground a cb has to- im not sure ream can. and again- fulham seem to agree.

    i think a realistic ability to physically play the position more than exceeds a drop in theoretical quality. no, we arent playing in the prem against prem competition- maybe he can still put in a shift against jam/mex/pan. im all for finding out.

    but im not sure how its irrelevant. how do we wait for someone to beat him out without it being too late? weve got to be proactive to some degree, and hopefully we will.

    and again, im not quite sure how fully being a club reserve at this point when we have an extremely young alternative actually starting at that same level is just being ignored. people are itching to show aaronson and reyna and weah the door, but turner and ream just sail right though.

    how much of an ass kicking, with them directly at fault for goals, will it take to change that? im just asking.
     
  16. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Reyna slander will not be tolerated....



    He has 38 minutes with Forrest.
     
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  17. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    #767 Maximum Optimal, Mar 17, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2024
    I've watched several of Trusty's matches. As well as Ream's matches when he started while Bassey was away playing for Nigeria in the African Nations Cup. I can only go by what my eyes tell me. It aint a close call.
     
  18. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    Most importantly, at least y’all are finally admitting Agoos was pretty good for a spell.


    The current CB situation is not good. Every time I watch Richards get beat on a corner I am certain he can’t be the starter for the Nats. Basically zero of the current CBs are really top-20 international quality. But you gotta start someone.

    What happened to Neal? At least he was young and might get better.
     
  19. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    I’ve seen reports Aaronson and Wright have been called. Is that fact?
     
  20. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
  21. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There were reports that he was not practicing during the week between games because he was struggling with something. He never should have been called in to the squad to begin with, if that was true.
     
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  22. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Haji vs Vazquez. Haji gets the nod.

    Interesting. I do like that Haji is in great form and has no problem playing the LW which is versatility this roster needs.

    Vazquez probably the better pure striker though IMO.
     
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  23. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Haji versus Vazquez is a tough call. Either way I would have been happy.

    Aaronson for de la Torre makes sense too.

    Good to be building depth with players of this caliber. And also a good sign that in-form players the caliber of Vazquez have to be left behind.
     
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  24. SamsArmySam

    SamsArmySam Member+

    Apr 13, 2001
    Minneapolis, MN
    I mean, it's not what I'd do, but you could line up a pretty strong XI if you required starters for their clubs...

    Horvath
    Scally-Miles-Richards-Jedi
    Johnny-Wes
    Pulisic-Tillman-Aaronson
    Balogun
     
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  25. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    right now? Do we know that for sure?
     

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