I couldn't find another thread on this, but I'm creating a top 50 Laliga players, and I wanted some opinions on this. Keep in mind this isn't just the best players to play in laliga but the best Laliga players in history.
From what I understand your list is based solely on what the players did within LaLiga. So let's disregard what they did in other competitions like Champions League, Copa del Rey, Super Cup, etc... What's more, what players did at other clubs doesn't count. Am I right? Having this as a starting point, when I evaluate a player's greatness, my main point is the importance that the player had in winning the titles he won. So if he won a title as the undisputed outstanding player, he will have more credit than someone who won a title as one of the most important players but not the most important of all. In this sense, I think there is no debate that Messi tops this list. He is one of the players with the most games, most goals, most assists and most titles in LaLiga history and was the protagonist in almost all of them. The discussion only starts to get interesting after second place. I think there is an argument for Cristiano being second best. Although he didn't win many titles (he won 2 in 8 years) he scored a lot of goals and had a ridiculous average. He just didn't win because he overlapped Messi and Barcelona in their best periods in history. There were seasons in which he scored 48 goals in LaLiga and didn't win (like Messi in 2012 when he scored 50 and didn't win). He was Real Madrid's undisputed standout player during this period. Although Gento is the player with the most titles in LaLiga history, he has never been the team's standout player. Although it was one of the most important
Hugo Sanchez is certainly in conversation for second place. He won almost all LaLigas between 85/86 and 89/90, being Real Madrid's top scorer in all of them.
Di Stefano and Puskás' Real won 4 LaLigas. Di Stefano was the team's top scorer between 54/55 and 58/59. Puskás was the team's top scorer between 59/60 and 63/64. So we have 3 titles for Di Stefano as top scorer and 1 for Puskás as top scorer.
Stoichkov were LaLiga Champions 4 times being Barcelona's top scorer in 3 of them. Rivaldo were the top scorer in 2 titles won but I don't really know if the most standout player on the team was him or Figo who were the team's top assister on both winning campaigns Ronaldo and Romário had one of the best seasons in la Liga history but they spent very little time there. Maradona also. Cruijff spent more time there but only won 1 title and never showed the same level of Ajax/Netherlands thought
Not on the same level of Ajax imo. What's more, 1 season isn't enough when we compare to a player like Hugo Sanchez for example who were 5 times top scorer and 5 times champion. Cruijff imo enter in the category of Romário, Maradona and Ronaldo who had 1 great season and nothing more
I'm not sure that can be said mate (but then it's difficult to conclusively say the opposite too) because of lack of footage. On the face of it 1973/74 (including World Cup) could seem like one of the best seasons of all-time by anyone and a certain candidate for Cruyff's best (I don't mean the certain choice necessarily, but in the mix at the very least). Maybe it's due to lack of assist data in general (let alone pre-assists) and to some extent ratings too (though on this forum some 1973/74 ratings have been posted and Cruyff's stand out indeed), or maybe you are 'over-compensating' in the opposite direction to Trachta in terms of valuing goalscorers right now, but you could be focusing too much on goals scored potentially don't you think? For example Laudrup not Stoichkov was voted best La Liga player 1974-1999 (the creator rather than the striker, if we simplify things - it can also be to do with going to Real Madrid and adding Liga titles possibly though of course I guess). Cruyff was assisting about as much as scoring in 1973/74 (maybe Trachta's thread already informed you on it, but I'm showing Vegan's post anyway), which for sure Sanchez, C.Ronaldo etc were not doing obviously, not to mention the surge in form and results of Barcelona after Cruyff joined: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/johan-cruyff-matches-and-goals-scored.1865250/page-6#post-25252221 I think Trachta added another assist at a later point, but in a friendly game anyway and you would probably be wanting to discount those from consideration. Cruyff won the Ballon d'Or in both 1973 (calendar year) and 1974 too obviously and it wasn't all about the World Cup.
Adding Puck's observations from a bit lower down too https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/johan-cruyff-matches-and-goals-scored.1865250/page-6#post-25254194
Talking about seasons as a whole I believe this one to be the other stand-out one by Cruyff in terms of really outstanding ratings: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/j...nd-goals-scored.1865250/page-60#post-26319039 Not to say he wasn't still capable of top class performances (and had some for the NT, let alone Barcelona) in between those 73/74 and 76/77 seasons.
Do you think what Cruijff did only considering LaLiga in 73/74 were better than Romario 93/94 or Ronaldo 96/97?
I think I would put it this way: I would believe that it is possible, maybe probable, based on knowing his qualities, seeing playing footage of his very good games that is available, knowing the situation Barcelona were in when he joined and suchlike, but I can't definitively say that that is my opinion because we can't see enough footage of Barcelona 1973/74 Liga games. I think he will have had more of an all-round influence on games than them, and does have stats more balanced between goals/assists, but probably Ronaldo scored more solo goals (the Cruyff game reports on that same thread would suggest otherwise if it was maybe the case I suppose) and Romario was likely more impressive in terms of finishing. It's similar if you asked how it compared to Messi's 2014/15 (Liga) season, or Laudrup's 1991/92 one or whatever - it's too much guesswork maybe to even give my own true opinion on it if that makes sense, I think.
I think other Liga seasons by Cruyff are not necessarily bad either though. msioux75 shows here he's top-rated for 1976/77, but also 4th for 1977/78 https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/la-liga-rankings-1975-93.1813986/page-10#post-34789663 https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/la-liga-rankings-1975-93.1813986/#post-24361899 I've dug out this post of mine because it has a link to msioux's work with a database of some Liga ratings for some seasons (by average each month) - Cruyff's 1973/74 ratings can be seen there (3 is the maximum score I think, with the Spanish system of those days) https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/la-liga-old-rankings-marca-mundo-deportivo.2037428/#post-35145968
How do you rank Kubala regarding LaLiga only? I have the impression that Barcelona didn't have a clear protagonist. But Kubala seems to have been very regular and won 4 titles although he was only top scorer in one of them. He was voted Barcelona's best player of the 20th century.
Again it's kind of impossible for me to truly rate him I suppose. I think, like Cruyff he did have one sensational season in 1951/52, and then he did contribute well in other seasons, shortly after, or later on playing a role in the team that had the other Hungarians in, and Suarez. I watched the England vs Rest of World/Europe game from 1953 and he was impressive (less so than Cruyff at his very best I would say, but although a notable game by Kubala and perhaps one that enhanced his reputation in England/Europe significantly even, it's only one performance). In some other games he was playing in he wasn't the best on the pitch I remember thinking (France vs Spain 1959 is an example I think).
It could be seen as not relevant for La Liga of course, but in case you didn't know about it here is that Kubala performance vs England (I did watch the full game myself, but I remembered this had been made)
The Laudrup bit should more accurately say 'adding a La Liga title' of course (I didn't mean to imply multiple but just the 94/95 one, in which he played a prominent part and was recognised for example in the end of season 94/95 ESM XI, though his ratings weren't overall as high as in some Barcelona seasons and he didn't receive individual awards for that season in Spain).