Malik Tillman

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Maximum Optimal, May 31, 2022.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    As informational, the two assists often not counted were penalties drawn. Which is great, though both of those were not exactly forced.

    Great game for him today; I hope he keeps it up. He has the skills. He just needs the head.

    I think Pochettino clocked him right from day one. A lot of potential, but inconsistent fire. That's what his quote was, and the only way Tillman proves that out is to have a lot of good games in a row.

    Maybe that lit a fire. Maybe he's growing up. Maybe this is a small burst. We'll see.
     
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  2. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    What bothers me is struggling to figure out if this is more about figuring things out, w/in his mindset, and than being able to play with a proper intensity consistently, or if he's just a super skilled, talented guy whose also lazy, and laid back, and won't consistently play hard unless a guy can figure out his buttons a la Vince Lombardi and say Jimmy Johnson. Nobody would consider Joe Montana or even Tom Brady, hyper rah rah, loud, intense guys, but they did have a way about them that became a leadership style all its own that worked.

    Is Malik just shy, introverted, and an anti-ray lewis so to speak? Or is he yet another example of a guy blessed with tremendous skills and talent who lacks a motor?

    That's really the big question. I don't know the answer, dealing with the latter option requires someone who can push his buttons, and even that might not always work, but if he's like HOF's like Joe Montana, Bart Starr, Art Monk (my childhood hero who was surprised he was drafted, let alone in round 1), well then, extracting that impact will be easier. I'm hoping it's more about personality and mental make up, rather than work habits and dedication.
     
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  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    That is a great play. Perhaps his best of the game. His finish is better than it originally looked when you see if from behind goal as well.

    That said, there's no way he should get an assist on Bakayoko's goal, but he'll take it.
     
  4. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think there's a whole lot of different personality traits that can manifest and time will tell who Malik ends up being.

    I wouldn't use laziness. It's possible, but there's a whole slew of other things. Some guys simply aren't as aggressive and don't assert themselves as much. Some guys float and watch over run. You can be a good player without it, though maybe not the player we want.

    The absolute greats do tend to hate to lose, and both work their ass off to avoid that and would kill on the field to get it done. Messi may not defend much, but you'd never call him lazy during a game or in practice time, I suspect.

    There's dicks like Jordan and Ronaldo and Draymond and nice guys like Steph and LeBron and Messi ... there's absolute flakes like Klay Thompson ... but they all hate to lose.
     
  5. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    It definitely has seemed generational too. I just think sports in general were much, much, much more physical and had much higher demands in terms of intensity in decades past. I have already posted anecdotes about faculty student games, where we've destroyed the students simply through intensity with our broken down old teacher bodies lol because even the slacker gen x generation still grew up having to play with intensity or get no PT at all back in the day.

    I agree w/you, some of this seems like just mental make up. There have always been, as they said back in the day, more finesse players, and more physical types. Tillman definitely seems more of a finesse guy, reminding me of NBA big men who are "soft" types. It's always struck me as odd, but I get it, I'm an introvert, but having been raised to play with intensity, even in sports I sucked at, I played hard as hell (indeed, being so middling at basketball, I made up for it by being extremely intense, annoying "softball" guy on a basketball court lol, getting loose balls, rebounds, blocks, trying to make up for my erratic shot which is now totally broken lol).

    I'm hopeful that Tillman is just a mellow guy that can play with more intensity and want as he grows older and matures, and failing that, that Poch and future coaches just figure out his buttons in the same way guys like Lombardi, Walsh, Gibbs, Jimmy Johnson, Tomlin etc could and did.
     
  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I sucked, so I had to play dirty ... er ... physical.

    Malik is a finesse player who will use his size from time to time, and that's fine. I doubt that ever changes, really. And it doesn't need to. In another sport, it may be an issue, but in soccer? Nah. His size will still be an asset.

    His peak will likely be determined by how hard he wants to work away from the game, how consistent he can get on the field, and how much he can assert himself on offense.

    I have no opinion on the first one; I think it's incorrect to attribute work ethic from play style. But it is pretty clear he's struggled to consistently bring focus and it's pretty clear that he's not a dude that looks to strongly assert himself yet.

    I think there's a pretty good chance that the biggest gap between Gio and Malik is in that assertiveness. Probably more straight dribble skill from Gio ... but that probably comes from dribbling guys constantly.
     
  7. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I wouldn't attribute work ethic to play style but it is a part of my question on him: is he lazy, or is he just figuring it out? When and how to apply his commitment and intensity? Reyna can appear similarly odd, he can be intense on the defensive end or passive and diffident depending upon what game you're watching and when its from. I have no idea about any of this, I'm just hoping Poch can figure him out, and his play within the set up out because he's simply too talented to throw away because we haven't figured out how to make him impactful. We simply don't have enough players with his level of talent and his collection of skills/tools to justify being so cavalier about his call ups and long term relevance to the national team. I just concede that so far, we've failed to figure it out just as he has., with us.
     
  8. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It hopefully clicks on that aspect when he eventually moves to a more physically and mentally demanding league within a couple years.

    With his club those demands aren't there in the Ered.
     
  9. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    1853940273652396330 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  10. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member+

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    i have to ask as I’m not following rule changes anymore. Can you step onto the field when throwing the ball in now? Obviously, I mean only one foot.
     
  11. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    The player is young. At this stage, the highs are more important than the lows, which can be mitigated over time. And it takes time to adjust to National Team play. The rest is just handwringing, projectionism, and wannabe scouts/analyst.
     
  12. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    15 matches is a little beyond 'adjusting".
     
  13. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    Who is the “he” in the CBS quote above?
     
  14. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Nope. 545 min.
     
  15. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    The manager. The reporter asked him if he thought he showed the manager that the position he played in the match today was better for him (versus the deeper position he has been pressed into recently because of an injury crisis). Malik agreed and said the thing about being happier higher up the field.
     
  16. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    I find it to be counterproductive to pick and chose data points. That seems to be fraught with motivated reasoning and subject to serving some narrative. The totality of what happens must be accounted for.
     
  17. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Picking and choosing 'data points' is how judgement works. 'Totality' belongs to the gods.
     
  18. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    I thought people are too harsh on Tillman who had a fantastic game in UCL match. I remembered when Weah used to like that great in one game, and meh in next game. Maybe just need time to mature Tillman and Johnny both very talented and not so good in USMNT’s duty, just need to give them more time. So is Musah.
     
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  19. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    As long as some part of the foot is touching the sideline, the rest of the foot can be in the field.
     
  20. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought the entirety of the foot had to be outside the line just like the entirety of the ball has to be beyond the line to be out of bounds.
     
  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Apparently as long as even a tiny part of the foot is still on the line, you are good. I didn't know this, but the internet seems pretty sure.
     

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