World Cup best players, plus top 3

1954:
1- Kocsis 2-Hidegkuti 3- Walter
1958
1- Didi 2- Pele 3- Kopa
1962
1-Garrincha 2- Masopost 3- Sekularac
1966
1- Eusebio 2- Charlton 3- Moore
1970
1-Pele 2- Rivelino 3- Jairzinho
1974
1- Cruyff 2- Beckenbauer 3- Deyna
1978
1- Kempes 2- Passarella 3- Fillol
1982
1- Rossi 2- Giresse 3- Conti
1986
1- Maradona 2- Careca 3- Lineker
1990
1-Matthaus 2- Schillaci 3- Brehme
1994
1- Romario 2- Baggio 3- Hagi
1998
1- Thuram 2- Zidane 3- Nazario
2002
1- Rivaldo 2- Kahn 3- Nazario
2006
1- Zidane 2- Pirlo 3- Cannavaro
2010
1- Xavi 2- Forlan 3- Iniesta
2014
1- Neuer 2- James 3- Robben
2018
1- Mbappe 2- Griezmann 3- Modric
2022
1- Messi 2- Mbappe 3- Griezmann

 

Trying for a top 4 since 1934, but with at least 1934-1962 very estimated (albeit with a good idea that I'd probably choose the same 4 players in some order at least for 1958 for example):

1934: Meazza, Orsi, Puc, Nejedly
1938: Leonidas, Sarosi, Meazza, Piola
1950: Ademir, Zizinho, Ghiggia, Finney
1954: Kocsis, Schiaffino, Puskas, F.Walter
1958: Pele, Kopa, Fontaine, Didi
1962: Garrincha, Masopust, Amarildo, Albert
1966: Eusebio, Moore, Beckenbauer, B.Charlton
1970: Pele, Jairzinho, Beckenbauer, Gerson
1974: Cruyff, Deyna, Neeskens, Muller
1978: Kempes, Rossi, Fillol, Ardiles
1982: Zico, Rossi, Littbarski, Socrates
1986: Maradona, Elkjaer, Laudrup, Lineker
1990: Matthaus, Milla, Baresi, Gascoigne
1994: R.Baggio, Romario, Hagi, Maldini
1998: Ronaldo, Bergkamp, Zidane, Cafu
2002: Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Cafu
2006: Zidane, Cannavaro, Pirlo, Klose
2010: Iniesta, Muller, Forlan, Sneijder
2014: James, Robben, Messi, Ochoa
2018: Hazard, Mbappe, Pogba, Modric
2022: Messi, Mbappe, Griezmann, Livakovic

I changed a few things slightly here and there from previous attempts. For 2022 I did have the top 3 about tied I think too, but it makes sense to prioritise Final performance/impact as the decider I think (and avoid controversy too probably lol, compared to if I'd stuck with them in the reverse order, which is how I had it before that final game).

 

Best players of WC 2014 as per Gazzetta Dello Sport:

7,80 : James Rodríguez (Colombia)
7,40 : Keylor Navas (Costa Rica)
7,21 : Thomas Müller (Germany)
7,12 : Howard (USA)
7,10 : Neymar (Brazil)
7,00 : Benzema (France), Giancarlo González (Costa Rica), Robben (Holland), Cuadrado (Colombia)
6,90 : Bryan Ruiz (Costa Rica)
6,88 : Yepes (Colombia)
6,80 : Armero (Colombia)
6,79 : Kroos (Germany)
6,75 : Hummels (Germany)
---
6,64 : Messi (Argentina)

 

Yes, true. On the other hand some guys rated Messi best of all of course (and James did leave the tournament early - I did put him first still in my post as you can see obviously).

 

Among the players who reached the final, we have 3 Germans rated above Messi (Müller, Kroos and Hummels)

 

I think Messi built his ratings until the round of 16. From the quarters onwards he was a complete non-factor

 

I agree, Messi 2014 is overrated like Hazard 2018

 

You can make these points without quoting me directly mate (the OP also had Messi above any German). I don't know if it seems like you're more hostile/less polite/more direct to me nowadays (I know I pointed out the rep to Carlito before and you said you're not though).

I pretty much agree (in nicer terms perhaps) with the second point though.

Bada Bing (a huge Messi fan admittedly) saw Messi's 2014 as comparable to Kempes's from 1978, and even Maradona's from 1986. Some Argentines saw Mascherano as having a better WC on the other hand I remember (that posted on Big Soccer I mean).

I did watch the games and am entitled to not just copy and paste from GdS though aren't I? Although I too do sometimes post some ratings to be fair to indicate how players were seen (such as referring to Laudrup in La Liga a few days ago) so I guess I'm not majorly critical of you doing that as such.

*Maybe I wouldn't totally say he was a non-factor from QFs onwards anyway (specifically thinking about the QF itself, albeit IIRC I did view his R16 game as better and the final group game even if he came off early), but on the other hand in the first game or two in the group stage I felt his general performance level was not special at all (maybe that also seems a harsh way to put it but I think it conveys what I'm getting at the best maybe), especially vs Bosnia (until the 2nd half when he did start to play a bit better) and to an extent vs Iran too I remember...but end product did surface (and the goal vs Iran was very good I think we'd all acknowledge....whether or not he had too much space or whatever....).

 

Don't get me wrong, I respect you (and anyone who doesn't make personal attacks on me). You know I always ask your point of view on different players from the past via DM.

As you said, BadaBing is a Messi fanboy, so he will praise Messi for anything he does. Imagine comparing Messi 2014 with Maradona 1986 lol.

Of course you can have your own opinion, I just disagree that he was a top 4 player in the 2014 World Cup for the reasons I already mentioned. The part I sent from GdS is just an appeal to authority. Neuer came 3rd in the Ballon d'Or in 2014 largely because of the World Cup title, although according to GdS he was not in the top 3 among German players. Several people have different opinions about this tournament. I also remember people arguing that Mascherano (a similar case with Cannavaro 2006 where Italy reached the cup final thanks to a solid defensive system and the standout player in the defensive sector was Cannavaro) were the best argentinian player on this tournament.

My personal top 4 is

T. Müller
J. Rodriguez
A. Robben
Neymar Jr.

 

Definite number ones since 1954 are Eusebio in 1966, Cruijff in 1974 (Sofascore MOTM in 6 of 7 games including final), Maradona 1986, Hazard 2018 and Messi 2022 (against a sick Netherlands and France teams).

Many would name Kempes in 1978 but I disagree strongly with the opinion it is a clear number one. If Rensenbrink shoots the ball in then he is topscorer, world cup winner, golden ball winner. Unless Gonella cancels the goal of course.

Kempes handballed his way to the title against Poland and then also a handball for his second goal in the final (also a potential outstretched leg for dangerous play at his first goal; compare this with Van Basten vs Ireland in 1988 for example). Somehow we never hear that in the international media but it was 100% a handball.

Rensenbrink at #4 in Sofascore is some way behind Kempes yes, but a) Kempes his rating goes down without the extra time (that means: the Rensenbrink shot goes in) and b) Rensenbrink faced way tougher opponents, defensively at a minimum, in the second group stage.

Matthaus in 1990 I think was a bit less bright in the knockout stages and arguably outperformed by Brehme. Who was more decisive and had a more refined game. Matthaus was back in the pack in the England game (semi final) and Argentina game (final) I think. Still a plausible number one, sure, but not a 100% certainty.

Hazard in 2018 was excellent in every game and excellent against every strong opponent (with end product in all of them except France). He is also a sure number one for me.

 

For definite number 1s since 1966 (for 1954 I couldn't be sure on Kocsis given lack of full match footage, for 1958 Pele is just one of a few candidates - France Football do give him the highest average rating but other sources don't, and he didn't play every game and the USSR and Wales performances can't be seen in full unless the video emerges later still, meanwhile Didi took a prestigious player of the tournament award didn't he and the available footage shows his merits, but Kopa was declared/voted top player by another source and Fontaine scored 13 goals and his France Football average is above Kopa's and Didi's...and finally in various all-star XIs that don't put Didi as a half-back/midfielder (some of them do, understandably given he played in the middle of a 4-2-4 albeit other nations didn't use that system and the all-star XI template doesn't tend to use it at that time), but as option for inside forward, these 4 players are all splitting the votes between them too....and for 1962 I lean to think definitely Garrincha to be fair):
(Perhaps Eusebio 1966 yes, but I'll avoid saying a definite definite because I could see arguments for others given he didn't play his best or most effective games at the end of the tournament, and The People newspaper albeit English of course did give Bobby Moore the highest average rating, a journalist vote post-tournament gave a player of the tournament award to Bobby Charlton IIRC didn't they...so I guess there can be debate even if Eusebio feels fairly clearly my own choice still)
Cruyff 1974
(Also holding back on Kempes 1978 yes, but I would have him as a perhaps, of course with the extra-time in the Final being a significant factor though indeed)
Maradona 1986

Maybe that's it lol (2!) given James Rodriguez went home early, and in 2022 I already said I was close to a 3-way tie (and one of the French players Mbappe did also make an impact in the Final - I remember something me and @Isaías Silva Serafim did see the same at the time was thinking actually Di Maria was the best player on the pitch while he was on it...but for sure Mbappe and Messi both did significantly more in the game than Griezmann, and Messi had played pretty well himself in the early part of the game where Argentina went into the ascendency...yes with dubious health/fitness of the French players though, true).

I think I'm a bit more sympathetic to Kempes (but it's ok for us to have slightly different feelings/interpretations about things I think Puck, even if we often think similar on various things). I remember I think from another tournament that you do see a goal-line handball as out of order or not part of football etc, but I guess I always tended to think of those as less serious or 'wrong' than bad fouls, or any fouls maybe, and lent towards thinking a player acting as a goalkeeper will know he is giving away a penalty and if he can make a save then that's an open option (I know some do think of professional fouls like this though - saying "he has to do it" etc and I admit I'm not really a fan of that so maybe I should think the same here in theory!). You got me interested in seeing a handball for his 2nd goal of the Final - I'm still struggling a bit to see anything but I guess you mean when the ball has rebounded from the goalkeeper it could brush the hand of Kempes? I guess it could happen but I struggle to be sure using this video:

I checked what I'd put on here around 3:25 too but it's a bit less clear even on that one I think!

I guess it'd be accidental anyway (often I might think well if it leads to a goal directly then maybe it should still be given, but I don't know if I think that if it comes off the goalie and rebounds and he doesn't move his arm to the ball as such, and any brush is minimal....)
Anyway, yeah the one at 0:45 here vs Poland is obviously deliberate lol - I think I stop short of crediting him with a positive for it (or at least I didn't think I have done as part of my call for him as number 1 player; like I don't credit Maradona with cleverness or whatever for the 1986 handball even if some do - the play before I would do a bit but not the handball which really should have been seen I think anyway as the disguise wasn't that great...but yeah it's in the cheating category anyway to be fair)

It's not as good a save by Kempes as the one by Bryan Robson around 0:55 here though anyway!

I guess you saw, in the spur of the moment (thinking about it for the first time) I even listed Kempes in a 'most admired' (mainly for playing qualities) selection I tried recently (a la the types of questions asked to some of the old all-time players that we've seen and discussed) along with Pele, Cruyff, Zico and Michael Laudrup, so I guess that also shows I see him in a sympathetic way in terms of enjoying the way he played and went about the game. But yeah, without the extra-time then it seems more up for debate I guess indeed, and Rensenbrink, along with Rep, could be next on my list of candidates I think (or once was actually) - I think he probably wasn't at his best and not consistently excellent through every game (but then neither was Kempes actually, thinking especially about group games, or Roberto Baggio in 1994, or as discussed Messi in 2014 for example...but I did stop short of putting him at number 1 myself at least, while Baggio-Romario-Hagi is probably arguable in any direction for me with Hagi potentially having the highest peaks and best average performance level too, but obviously going home before the other 2 who did have significant moments of quality and impact to take their teams far, and Romario was fairly regularly good and impactful through the whole tournament).

 

Sorry, I meant the third Argentine goal in the final was a handball. The second a potential act of dangerous play with the outstretched leg (compare: Van Basten his goal vs Ireland in 1988). Also back then it could have been whistled off (the Dutch defenders are anxious to not give away a penalty). Which referees did on other moments in the very same tournament.

 

Ok sure, well I think, akin to Baggio in 1994 in some respects (albeit Baggio came alive in the knockout stage more indeed, and perhaps even had a better Final too, albeit missing that penalty at the end of it...in compromised physical condition which contributed to that possibly though, having started the game not fully fit and then played extra-time too), Messi in 2014 did have several individual goals and plays that helped Argentina progress, so that brings him into the discussion at least I tend to think. But of course it's possible for 'role players' to put it that way to be better or more important - I suppose I didn't think they did at the time (although someone like @ChizzyChisnall I tend to think is better than me with spotting some of the finer details including off the ball contributions on the defensive side I certainly think judging by his Euro 2024 observations he's been posting to be fair, and honest), and at this point it's hard to make any good recollection about exactly how I felt various German players were playing game to game (and in the middle of Euro 2024 it's not something I'm wanting to look back into) so I relied just one what I knew my final calls had been (adding in Ochoa without being sure I would have had him at number 4 though - I was certainly sure that he was doing really well as goalkeeper for the time Mexico were in the tournament though - I found a video to post so thought I'd add that in for a reminder of that)

I would probably agree that, not just because they won, Germany were the top team of the tournament though, and possibly had in general the best collection of top performing players on the whole....

 

Ah, ok, thanks for the clarification. Maybe it's my eyesight nowadays lol (which doesn't help to be as good with Chizzy on those finer details I guess indeed haha, although I don't think I would be anyway) but I am struggling a bit to see it on the 3rd goal too (you mean Kempes as the handballer I guess?), but to be honest I don't tend to see dangerous play in the second goal he scores because he is careful not to use any force and goes for the ball. Having said that, IIRC in terms of the general refereeing calls the Dutch probably would have had a few grounds for complaint about fouls given and not given etc (but I'm just not so sure on those incidents).

 

The handball can be seen a bit better here



Anyway, if Rensenbrink his shot goes in (and Gonella does not cancel) then he is the topscorer...

Sometimes I forget things too, really. I had totally forgotten, for example, we had goals incorrectly ruled out against Portugal in the 2004 semi final (it wasn't offside, not by a few centimeters, but not as bad call as Belgium vs Argentina in 1986 to be fair).

 

Yes, I think it does kind of roll off his chest and touch his arm to be fair, so it could have been disallowed.

 

I remember that Kempes did say himself that probably if Rensenbrink's shot goes in then indeed he would be Player of the Tournament.

Probably it did previously cross my mind on that 3rd goal that the ball was close to his arm, now I think about it, but yes I see what you're pointing out anyway. I remember that there was some dissatisfaction among the Dutch players about how the ref was viewing the plaster cast of Rene van de Kerkhof wasn't it (and perhaps like I say about some of the refereeing calls in general). I think in the end with the 3rd goal maybe it is a case of sometimes it'd be given, sometimes not, or not spotted (especially in the older days), but I wouldn't know whether or not the ref would feel inclined/under pressure not to give it or something. It was already 2-1 I suppose, although obviously it still changes the impetus and possibility to come back for the Dutch team....

 

So you see only Maradona 1986 and Cruijff 1974 as obvious, close to 100% certain, number ones?

 

Yes, I think so.

 

World Cup 1978 preview with Cruijff speaking on 29:30. (usually this is held against him, but now we have a row of historians thinking the league was in 1972 inferior to the one of Uruguay and placed 25th-30th per consensus...)

Interesting the presenters highlight there Van Hanegem is not going and making himself not avalaible (the full list was very long really; from Dusbaba to Geels, from Mühren to Van der Kuijlen, Jan Peters to Kees Kist).

 

I don't say that you're wrong, especially about the first two obviously (I think I had seen not long ago that quote about Zizinho IIRC, but possibly never that specific one about Ocwirk although I have seen references to prominent people in 1954 choosing him in ideal XIs for the 1954 tournament certainly, on this forum) - it's difficult when there isn't enough footage of course to really judge how we would think ourselves. Absent of good footage for Zizinho maybe I still find it hard to look past Ademir. This thread speaks well for Ademir overall (but the goals tally, and available video footage are probably also leading me of course), with him being picked out as one of the best Brazil players by l'Equipe in every game except the Final for example too (although if the Euros are any guide then maybe I shouldn't take l'Equipe's word for things since I hugely disagree with a 4 out of 10 for Schouten vs Romania for example that they awarded apparently!)
1950 World XI (by Dr. Friedebert Becker) | BigSoccer Forum

Re: Beckenbauer I guess I could consider him for 1974 top 4, though somehow I still feel like I expected more from him going forwards (and I did even see that Youtube compilation with his highlights from all games as well as various game footage - for sure there are some moments here and there where he does bring the ball forwards well and plenty of useful passing, and he is pretty accomplished in defence, but though I do think of him in general as peaking as a libero I tend to think his best World Cups were as midfielder maybe, previously - maybe it's just me or a minority view at least but I'm not sure). I could more easily put him over Muller (who was clutch and very efficient in key moments though obviously) than Neeskens I think. For me (and maybe you too seemingly) not over Deyna, and certainly not over Cruyff.

 

Sorry @Gutigut of course you did put Beckenbauer over Deyna for 1974, in your opening post that I already saw and repped obviously!