.......................other greater passers of the football that i saw playing on the field ...( grass) : Paul Breitner ... Andreas Brehme .... Andy Moller ( Borussia DortMund) Libudha (1970) ... Paulo Roberto Falcão ...Nelinho .... Marcelinho Carioca ( 289 assists overall ) etc ......
Yeah, I guess lack of footage can be a bit of an issue, and that even his highlight videos don't mainly focus on passing of course - this one does have a nice section on his passing though for example (by the way I saw the Cruyff ambidextrous passing video you made now indeed, so that's why I repped your new post about it): It's hard, especially for a category like passing, but among those 40 players I had selected as prime candidates in my estimation for passing/dribbling/goalscoring combined, in the passing category I did put Pele above half-way among them (17th, but in a very tight field I guess in passing moreso than dribbling overall - in the same range as these players, half of them I put above and half below for passing but I'm thinking they'd all be pretty comparable to him at it anyway probably: Scifo, Dalglish, Deyna, Puskas, Walter, Zidane, Schiaffino, Di Stefano; Beckenbauer, Hidegkuti, Hagi, Messi, Van Basten, Figo, Ronaldinho, Baggio....like I said before of course for older players, even including Pele himself but even more for earlier ones, it's harder to be confident about how well they generally passed the ball in 'normal' games because there is less footage). I think Pele did mature into his 'playmaking' version as of 1970 didn't he, but for sure even many years before he could play some excellent passes already, in combination with his skills, feints, dribbles etc....
That Corinthians-Palmeiras game seems like a classic match! It has some quality goals too, such as the Leivinha one from outside the area.
Yes, Breitner was very good in feeding Rummenigge for example with his passes I know, and Falcao had excellent precision and technique with his passing also.... Since you named another 7 I'll extend my list I gave you by the same number (though one of the players you already had on your own list anyway): Dalglish, Johnny Haynes, Giresse, Modric, Deyna, Bobby Moore, Ozil.... (Of course I just said in my post today that I probably kind of see Pele and others as close with Dalglish, and Scifo too who I included already, so yeah I think passing is a category where a lot of great players, and some not so great players too, can be pretty closely comparable to each other).
........................ Ruud Gullit He intercepted the ball, then he participated in the exchange of short passes, maintaining possession of the ball there for the Ac Milan Ita team.. then he makes an attack movement from UnderLapping and Attacks Six Yards zone . Later Goal Goal Goal for Ac Milan ... a Historical Goal at all . !!!
.................................... In fact, Pelé always made countless passes in his career. Pelé made many one-twos with Coutinho. Honestly, I saw this entire 1971 Brazilian championship game. Pelé is Cruyff and Michel Platini level for sure.. in 1971 in the Brasileirão he played 21 matches with only 1 goal. But between 20 assists and 24 assists in this Brazilian championship in question.
Yes, already in the 1961 Brazilian Cup Final for example he was combining excellently with Coutinho. I see now by the way that that DBS Calcio site has discovered/converted some media ratings of Pele from Santos games in Paulista editions, then Brasileiro editions, since 1964: 1974 Brasileirao 15 7.33 SP 1 7.11 1973 Brasileirao 29 7.45 SP 1 7.21 1972 Brasileirao 15 7.03 SP 1 6.89 1971 Brasileirao 20 6.43 SP 1 6.37 1970 Brasileirao 13 6.62 SP 1 6.50 1969 Brasileirao 12 7.46 SP 1 7.32 1968 Brasileirao 18 7.33 SP 1 7.09 1967 Brasileirao 14 6.61 SP 1 6.62 1966 Brasileirao 5 6.50 SP 0 6.33 1965 Campionato Paulista 27 7.52 ACS 1 7.02 1964 Campionato Paulista 21 7.45 ACS 1 -
.................... Pelé ... go to 8: 05 minutes at Video Palmeiras 1973 ... EDSON ARANTES PELÉ FROM LEFT FOOT CROSSING TO THE GOAL BY CENTER-DEFENDER MARINHO PEREZ (LATER HE PLAYED AT BARCELONA ) GO TO 8; 05 MINUTES THERE !!!
............................. to put watching at You Tube that is showing yes ... has a beautiful pass ( crossing with left foot ) !
Yes, also the volley goal with the left foot in that game of course. This isn't a Messi/Pele thread obviously, but for sure I think Pele was more two-sided in general, including in passing/crossing; even moreso in shooting (although Messi could be pretty good with right footed chip finishes at times for example).
.................... Edson Arantes Pelé was on the same level as Johan Cruyff, Didi Folha Seca and Michel Platini in genius, quality and variety of passes and was ambidextrous too..... He made several combined plays with left winger Edu. Jonas Americo de Lima.. Edu was Pelé's cousin.
.................... Honestly Pelé was much more complete than Lionel Messi, you know that. I'm a really big fan of Argentine football... physically Edson Arantes Pelé came from another planet and was technically perfect (very aggressive too)
........................ Unfortunately, we have few videos of the games of Pelé, Cruyff and the vast majority of players from the past.. Video with clarity. quality and variety of plays.
For example, Lionel Messi has the entire Spanish and Catalan media on his side to promote him as the best player of all time. For example, in the Mundo Maldini program they talk about how the São Paulo championship is very weak compared to the Spanish Championship, Italian and English from the 50s and 60s but for me Julio Maldonado Maldini bullshits with this... honestly I see the São Paulo, Carioca, Rio-São Paulo and Taca Brasil championships being on the same level as the Spanish, Italian and English championships at that time... so in Spain mainly Catalonia..they see Messi as the best of all time followed closely by Diego Armando Maradona, JOhan Cruyff, Ronaldinho Gaucho and Xavi. they are regional too much !! in spanish people . .................
................. Why do you think Michel Platini, Michael Laudrup and Johan Cruyff being too much better than Edson Arantes Pelé in ambi-dextrous Passing Skills overall ?????
Do you remember which games of Pele you saw you thought he played the best in mate? I guess these are some candidates potentially (but I don't know how much you saw of the games): I guess for all/most of Pele's touches being available these are some of the best choices (but probably some of the other games by him were better I'm thinking): https://youtu.be/eascV1S6bQE?feature=shared https://youtu.be/9hLp5RqK4-A?feature=shared https://youtu.be/nF2ZRSXOu84?feature=shared https://youtu.be/RztKngAarzE?feature=shared As a further bonus, since you picked your all-time Brazil for me, I'll add an equivalent all-time England selection to Southgate's 33 player choice for the Euros (1-26 being a main squad in theory, 1-11 a first XI in 4-3-3 in theory): 1: Gordon Banks, 2: Rob Jones, 3: Stuart Pearce, 4: Des Walker, 5: Duncan Edwards, 6: Bobby Moore, 7: Stanley Matthews, 8: Gary Lineker, 9: Bobby Charlton, 10: Glenn Hoddle, 11: Tom Finney (Banks; Jones, Walker, Moore, Pearce; Hoddle, Edwards, Charlton; Matthews, Lineker, Finney), 12: Viv Anderson, 13: Peter Shilton, 14: Billy Wright, 15: Sol Campbell, 16: Bryan Robson, 17: Kevin Keegan, 18: Trevor Francis, 19: Paul Gascoigne, 20: John Barnes, 21: Kenny Sansom, 22: Jimmy Greaves, 23: David Seaman, 24: Colin Bell, 25: David Beckham, 26: Alan Shearer....27: Matthew Le Tissier, 28: Steven Gerrard, 29: Mike Channon, 30: Trevor Brooking, 31: Ray Clemence, 32: Phil Neal, 33: Rio Ferdinand If I try for a 'Rest of the World' selection (a bit like David Lacey did here, at the turn of the century, but including other British/Irish nations too) I guess I end up like this (please don't take this as incitement on the main thread topic anyone though.,..,and it's clear Van Basten is more suited to be outright centre-forward in a Christmas Tree type system anyway I suppose, and also that for example Zico and Laudrup provide more cover in creative positions, and Figo and Best can for example play in a 3 man midfield too and did do very well at times - anyway I hope it's also understood I'm also not being completely blinded by my thoughts about 'morality' because for example I actually don't agree if I'm being honest on Eusebio 1966 being better than Maradona 1986 among World Cup tournament performances, but for sure my instinct is to find Eusebio more likelable/respectable than Maradona!): 1: Lev Yashin, 2: Cafu, 3: Paolo Maldini, 4: Franz Beckenbauer, 5: Elias Figueroa, 6: Franco Baresi, 7: Johan Cruyff, 8: Michel Platini, 9: Marco van Basten, 10: Pele, 11: Diego Maradona (Yashin; Cafu, Figueroa, Baresi, Maldini; Beckenbauer; Platini, Cruyff; Pele, Maradona; Van Basten); 12: Carlos Alberto, 13: Peter Schmeichel, 14: Johan Neeskens, 15: Alessandro Nesta, 16: Gaetano Scirea, 17: George Best, 18: Ronaldo Nazario, 19: Alfredo Di Stefano, 20: Zico, 21: Nilton Santos, 22: Lionel Messi, 23: Gianluigi Buffon, 24: Frank Rijkaard, 25: Zinedine Zidane, 26: Eusebio; 27: Luis Figo, 28: Lothar Matthaus, 29: Michael Laudrup, 30: Ferenc Puskas, 31: Rinat Dasaev, 32: Djalma Santos, 33: Ruud Krol (I was certainly tempted to put in Gullit, knowing how much a fan you are Wiliam though...and for sure he can be a good option for such a selection - maybe in some ways his versatility works against him a little, even though in theory it could easily work in his favour in a squad selection - other players being more specialist in certain aspects, he being more complete and versatile!)....
I'm having to finish making replies for now mate, but I guess as a quick answer I would say that from what I saw I haven't necessarily been convinced he was quite so special as those guys with brilliant passes all in all (but still being a better overall player even than Cruyff at his best possibly/probably).
I forgot the link re: David Lacey! England Honours - England All-Time Teams (englandfootballonline.com) I hope we're not taking the thread too much off topic (the problem I have is if I go on topic I can get into arguments I don't want to I suppose lol, but maybe it's ok to veer off into these interesting areas with you now anyway, on an 'old' thread).... EDIT - Note that Lacey did include Gullit, and Van Basten too, as subs for his World XI at that moment....
......................... great Teams for sure !!! Congratulations for too much special knowledge ..!!
PDG1978 , how can you compare Van Basten's passing quality with Ibra's? I think they're more comparable, being centre forwards, big and with great technique. Not with CR7, who is a winger. Obviously, Van Basten was more decisive throughout his career. But in terms of purely technical criteria? I've always found them more similar