Next Coach

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by nbarbour, Dec 3, 2022.

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  1. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Though the relationship would be different if he came in given Pulisic is our best player. Versus his role at Chelsea.

    Also hilarious would be if we hired Xavi given the relationship with Dest.
     
  2. twoolley

    twoolley Member+

    Jan 3, 2008
    Are they cheaping out relative to rest of world? Genuine q
     
  3. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    The happiness with that Hudson result still blows my mind.
     
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  4. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you aren't making and drinking Painkillers after watching the US in Copa I feel for you.
     
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  5. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was more that he wasn't Berhalter and everyone knew he wouldn't actually be head coach. If he had actually taken over he would have gotten the same criticism within days.
     
  6. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why? It’s a discussion board, remember.
     
  7. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I tend to like a lot of what Kasey says in relation to Tab's comments about getting a coach for the short term. Go get the best, most qualified guy who can do the job from now to the World Cup. No five-year plans, no guy who is going to lead the program for a decade, go get the guy who can best whip this team into shape over the course of 18 months for the 2026 World Cup. That's the job, go get the best man you can for it.



    They also get into the issues with the team maybe being too comfortable under a long-term coach on his second cycle before moving on to Olympics.
     
  8. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I really really liked that guy. Wonder if he's still alive. He was old back then. He'll always be smeared for sitting Messi in the QF with Germany but most of that was due to an emergency goalie injury replacement.
     
  9. largegarlic

    largegarlic Member+

    Jul 2, 2007
    I do think it might be a selling point for a high profile coach that it would/could only be an 18-month commitment. Tell Klopp he can come in in January or even March '25 so that he'd have 8-10 months off after leaving Liverpool and then can jump back to a club team right after the WC for the '26-27 season. The national team gig would still be quasi-down time compared to a high profile club.
     
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  10. PhilipVU94

    PhilipVU94 Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Jul 6, 2024
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A better question is whether there's any noticeable correlation between a new national team coach's salary and performance improvement. Broken record -- the NT coaches on top of the game now were generally not highly sought after when they took that job. Bielsa is probably the best current counterexample, but the actual WC semifinalist coaches were almost never splashy hires.

    It seems like we should establish that spending money actually helps before we suggest the federation isn't spending enough of it.
     
  11. PhilipVU94

    PhilipVU94 Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Jul 6, 2024
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The going rate among the best intl feds is to promote from within and then escalate salaries as they attain success (even success in the Gareth Southgate barely-survive-and-advance sense). Who outbid us, ever, for a coach we could have gotten who went on to have national team success?
     
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  12. Ball Chucking Hack

    Jan 21, 2005
    Raleigh, NC
    #9387 Ball Chucking Hack, Jul 8, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2024
    I think people who try to quantify a coach's value in hard terms usually end up throwing up their hands. For example, from an article in the Athletic:
    https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4494062/2023/05/07/do-football-managers-matter/

    If we could really measure managers’ skill levels independent of their team, we might expect it to follow them around from job to job. That’s where things get slippery. For example, Rafa Benitez, one of the very top performers in the Premier League study from his years at Liverpool, looks mediocre in the Serie A study at his very next job at Inter. Claudio Ranieri, one of the least promising performers in the Serie A study, would go on to win Premier League Manager of the Year for leading Leicester City to an all-time great triumph over wages as destiny — then get sacked at the edge of the relegation zone a few months later.

    other points:
    A short term bump tends to happen in leagues when a manager is fired.
    -another study looked at coaching changes across all sports and tended to find that coaching changes either made no difference or had a slight negative effect overall.

    Who knows? Especially in soccer.
     
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  13. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Considering that Jeff Carlisle is one of the journalists that USSF tends to use when they want stuff out in the public (Doug McIntyre being another) I am fairly confident in saying that the names Jeff mentioned are names being discussed internally... which for people who don't want to read the article are...

    Jurgen Klopp
    David Wagner
    Steve Cherundolo
    Hugo Perez
    Marcelo Gallardo
    Jose Pekerman
    Patrick Viera
     
  14. PhilipVU94

    PhilipVU94 Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Jul 6, 2024
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nice to have an extensive diverse list at least. The text typifies the weird gap between discussion of NT coaching candidates versus actual performance of NT coaches.

    Even if you think Klopp is a slam-dunk hire at any price, that is a patently ridiculous sentence. Anyone sane would wish for the US coach to have one or more wins coaching a national team, all else equal.

    Both these sentences are even by the same author, Jeff Carlisle!

    I think what he means is that Klopp is so stellar that you wouldn't think twice about his lack of NT coaches. Cherundolo isn't so accomplished so his lack of NT experience is a greater concern. Well, I would think twice (the club to NT transition is my biggest concern about Jürgen) but that's at least coherent.

    Also Carlisle. Has he lost the plot and thinks this is a club opening? Diversity in experience is good, I suppose, but international track records are short. I'd much rather have ten years' success in NT coaching, which is just two WC cycles, than five in NTs and five successful years in club coaching.


    BTW...

    Mallorca is Aguirre's current club. Somehow that got left out.

    Pékerman is interesting, in part because all four group winners at the CA have Argentine coaches.
     
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  15. keller4president

    Jan 5, 2006
    Why not more support for Pablo Mastroeni as next coach?

    He's played in two World Cups. Has several years of coaching experience. Has RSL playing at a good level. Think he would connect well with current batch of players, and also be a motivator/disciplinarian.
     
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  16. USOutlaw16

    USOutlaw16 Member+

    Green Bay Voyageurs
    United States
    Jan 22, 2011
    On the Gringo Wall of Shame
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes please: Klopp

    Of course....interesting maneuver: Gallardo, Pekerman, Vieira

    I wouldn't hate it: Cherundolo, Wagner

    Oh god please no: Perez
     
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  17. USOutlaw16

    USOutlaw16 Member+

    Green Bay Voyageurs
    United States
    Jan 22, 2011
    On the Gringo Wall of Shame
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    AO better make tifos of his bench pic from the infamous photoshoot.
     
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  18. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Argentine managers seem to be more willing to coach national teams who aren’t their own (and good enough to get offers to do so). 7 of the 15 Copa America managers were Argentine.

    I think it’s because even for top Argentine managers it can be hard to get a top 5 league job.
     
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  19. PhilipVU94

    PhilipVU94 Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Jul 6, 2024
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah, not sure if the muddled thinking in Jeff's segments should worry me more then!

    Also Pellegrino Matarazzo should imo easily be in any semi-realistic list of 16 coaches we'd like for the US. Since he's not on the ESPN list, I wonder if that means he's proactively rejected them, if they're not interested, or if it's just a bit of delta between the ESPN list and their actual thinking.
     
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  20. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Really? It surprises you that people were happy when we won annd created chances and generally looked dangerous, better than we looked under GB’s leadership?
     
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  21. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    This is the first year with Pablo it felt the team is legit good and not lucky
     
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  22. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    I wasn’t particularly impressed with the performance compared to the Berhalter norm.
     
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  23. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    Hudson and Callaghan were ineffective at reducing chances for the US.
     
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  24. Ball Chucking Hack

    Jan 21, 2005
    Raleigh, NC
    Probably water under the bridge at this point, but...

    I don't think this is true. Maybe there's a case for Callahan, but Hudson probably underperformed Berhalter.

    1-0 win over El Salvador in home Nations League xg: 1.69

    In World Cup qualifying the XG was 2.98. Different sites, so that's not exactly apples to apples, but that's a big gap.
    The only other A side competitive match for Hudson was against Grenada.
     
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  25. USOutlaw16

    USOutlaw16 Member+

    Green Bay Voyageurs
    United States
    Jan 22, 2011
    On the Gringo Wall of Shame
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A match where a home side wearing green and yellow lost 7-1.

    Speaking of which, happy 10 year anniversary to that other 7-1.
     
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