The latter most certainly Crossing with either foot with relative ease is the bread and butter of CR where are these games of van Basten where he was a more consistent/flawless passer as cris You can't compare a striker to the best LW in history who scored 700 goals No matter if it's a 5 year comparison or single season comparison van Basten was only better than Cristiano Ronaldo once during his career Over 6 European championship games in 1988 At league and champions league level Cristiano Ronaldo has been demonstrably superior Arguably even at the world cup (although there's nothing to brag about here because neither were particularly memorable)
Unfortunately, there aren't as many MVB match compilations, but these two videos demonstrate what I'm trying to say - not flashy, but consistent and incisive enough too. Even in 92/93 when he was really at the end.
This is a allegedly a "protected" player who dives at the slightest point of contact Its why i chuckle when i hear player x played against nesta,baresi,maldini,fachetti,scirea,beckenbaur,thuram,cannavaro.....goikoetxea etc..... I mean dude just who are you kidding Anybody who followed his career knows full well that he suffered as worse as any great of a bygone era Messi too but people will just persist with myths
One of the most underrated goals of Cristiano Was involved in every sequence of the attack from the half way line right up until the 1 touch finish in the 6 yard box. 1121189420307296263 is not a valid tweet id @Edhardy @Tropeiro @PuckVanHeel @PDG1978 @Bavarian14
Don Alfredo di Stefano "Cristiano is a phenomenon, he is number one – a barbaric player. “I’d say he was the complete player. You can see that opponents fear him. For me Cristiano is the best.” Diego maradona "Cristiano is a predator in front of goal. You can’t let Cristiano shoot from anywhere in the opposition half. “Goalkeepers are scared of him. You have to be honest, goalkeepers are scared of Cristiano."
November 23rd 2013 0:30 Ossie ardilles: "At this point and in the history of football id put him in the top 10 players of all time" This is pre la decima Before he won his second ballon dor Paddy crerand "Cristiano ronaldo reminded me of George Best a great deal Cristiano was of a different build standing 6ft tall whereas best was like a little nipper but they both had the same incredible balance and they were both fantastic in the air Then there was their courage George best would've tackled goliath if he was standing between him and goal The portuguese was the nearest i have ever seen to George best and nobody else comes to mind" https://books.google.be/books?id=qesfCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA245&lpg=PA245&dq=paddy+crerand+cristiano&source=bl&ots=reEum1H_6G&sig=ACfU3U0ftWsRXH2At1O3_e0Bw8gBHxa9Zg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjb0bTrrsnpAhVS_aQKHcTJAJoQ6AEwBHoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=paddy crerand cristiano&f=false Pele 2009 "Cristiano reminds me so much of a player who I thought was brilliant - George Best,” “He is the closest I have seen to Best since he was at his peak, due to the way he runs with the ball at speed, on the left and right, and with such skill." https://www.goal.com/en/news/9/engl...stiano-ronaldo-reminds-me-of-george-best-pele Eusebio 2008 Question: In 2003, you were named Portugal's best ever player by the Portuguese football federation. Does Cristiano Ronaldo have the potential to take your crown? Answer: Yes. And the way he's going at the moment he can become not only the best footballer in Portugal, but also the best in the world; maybe not the best of all time, but I think within a short space of time Ronaldo will be recognised as the best footballer in the world. He was second last time [in the Ballon d'Or, behind Kaka] – which shouldn't be sniffed at. But he's got every chance of winning the trophy very soon. https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/eusebio-one-one Only 6 years later(2014) Cristiano ronaldo was voted the greatest ever player by the Portuguese football federation Even Paulo futre said back in 2011 it wouldn't be before long that he surpassed Eusebios legacy Diehard benfica fans gave up saying Eusebio was better after the 4 goals vs Sweden in 2013. Over 6 years ago now Since then he's won 4 CL titles+4 ballon dors You open a thread on big soccer/xtratime Whos prime was better? Cristiano vs romario Cristiano vs R9 Cristiano vs Thierry Henry Cristiano vs George best CR vs van basten CR vs rumminge CR vs stoichkov He would lose or at least be close to losing CR7 did not score 45 CL goals in 3 consecutive seasons between 16-18? Was not the best out and out winger in the world during 2007? Was not the best out and out goalscorer in the world during 2017? Did not score 40+ league goals on 3 separate occasions? Was not voted the best player in England,Spain and Italy? Did not score 18 goals in 12 matches against gigi buffon and Manuel neuer? 9 in 6 against buffon 9 in 6 against neuer How many matches did andriy shevchenco play in Serie A How many matches did R9 play in Serie A How many goals did they score against buffon? Neuer has played in bundesliga since 2006 Is there any bundesliga player who has scored 9 against him? If so how many matches did it take them 10,20,30? The delusions need to stop Some more interesting extracts: Question You played against some of the game's greatest players – Pele, Best, Di Stefano, Puskas, Charlton. Who was the best? Answer: And you could add others to that list. But I'm not going to sit on the fence. In my opinion, one player was the most complete: Alfredo Di Stefano. They are all great players, but Di Stefano had it all. Alfredo di Stefano was also Pele and maradonas personal choice as the greatest footballer in history Maradona: "The best player in history? Di Stéfano was better than everyone else - even me" https://t.co/t4Kj0rxATn pic.twitter.com/HTI4NoHCrL— AS USA (@English_AS) December 18, 2019 https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/di-stefano-best-ever-not-maradona-pele
كريستيانو مابين 2003-2013 كان جناح بأدوار دفاعية ومع ذلك حقق الحذاء الذهبي 3 مرات في هالفترة ماذا لو لعب كريس بمركز أقرب للمرمى في عز ذروته ماذا لولعب منذ بدايته لفريق هجومي ومنظومة متكاملة مثل برشلونة ؟! pic.twitter.com/OuOi1dwMgY— بيبرس™ (@PIPARS__) May 28, 2020 4:43 Great double tackle 'in the snow'
Club comparison Will use separate 5 criteria to determine who achieved the highest peak A.)Highest non penalty goal+assist per 90(All comps) B.)Highest percentage of involvement in team goals(excluding penalties) C.)champions league KO stage goals D.)major club trophies E.)individual accolades Leagues considered Premier league La liga Serie A Eredivisie(being very generous) Players Van basten 1983-1993 Vs Cristiano ronaldo 2007-2010 Highest non penalty goal +assist per 90 Top 10 ranked seasons 1.)Cristiano ronaldo 2009/10 Club:real Madrid 29 non penalty goals+12 assists 2915 Minutes 1.26 non pen goals+assists per 90 2.)Van basten 1985/86 Club:Ajax 30 non pen goal +4 assist 2505 minutes 1.22 goals+assists per 90 3.)Van basten 86/87 Club:Ajax 33 non penalty goal+9 assists 3209 minutes 1.18 non penalty goal+assist per 903 4.)Cristiano ronaldo 2007/08 Club:Manchester United 36 non penalty goals+8 assists 4154 minutes 0.95 non pen goals +assists per 90 5.)Van basten 1991/92 18 non penalty goal+13 assists 3229 minutes 0.86 non penalty goals +assists per 90 Highest percentage of involvement in team goals(excluding penalties) Top 5 seasons 1.)cristiano ronaldo 2007/08 Manchester United scored 108 team goals Ronaldo non penalty+assist involvement 41% 2.)van basten 1991/92 Milan scored 84 team goals in all comps Van basten non penalty +assist contribution 37% 3.)Ronaldo 2009/10 116 team goals Ronaldo non penalty+assist involvement 35% Ajax 1986/87 131 team goals https://www.afc-ajax.info/en/season/1986-87 Van basten non penalty+assist contribution 32% direct involvement Van basten 1985/86 143 team goals https://www.afc-ajax.info/en/season/1985-86 Van basten non penalty+assist involvement 24% His highest scoring season and only directly involved in 24% w/o penalties Interestingly van bastens lowest non penalty scoring season 91/92 was arguably his most influential Champions league KO stage goals Non penalty goals+assists Just to save time a 24 year old Ronaldo scored considerably more even in just a 3 year period So I will widen it a little in favour of van basten This will now be a straight up comparison between Milan van basten 88-93 in all European cup matches And cristiano Ronaldo 07-10 in all champions league matches Excluding penalties Van basten 88-93 11 non pen goals +5 assists in 19 matches 4 goals +1 assist 5 matches 11 team goals 1 non penalty goal+1 assist 5 goal 5 non penalty goals+2 assists out of 16 KO goals I'm being generous here Milan coasted through 1992/93 without van basten winning 5 straight KO games His return vs Marseille with his problematic ankle should've been postponed Between ages 21-24 Ronaldo had 10 champions league KO goals + 3 assists When he Wasnt scoring or assisting he was pre assisting When he Wasnt pre assisting he was dribbling when he wasn't dribbling he was creating chances via ball carrying and crossing Individual club accolades Van basten was MVP in the Dutch league at 21 years old The Dutch league was a goals fest and ajax was scoring at levels not seen since Cruyffs Ajax in 1966/67 Moving away from the Dutch league and focusing on continental individual accolades Van basten in his career won the European golden shoe once Cristiano Ronaldo pre 2010 won the European golden shoe once Van basten was MVP of 1 European cup (88/89) Ronaldo pre 2010 was also MVP once of the champions league (07/08) Van basten won the European player of the year once 3 times Cristiano Ronaldo pre 2010 also won the European player of the year 3 times in 2007,2008,2009 Pre 1995 kaka and Messi would not be eligible Some fans here say even if the ballon dor had been eligible for south Americans he still would've beaten maradona and Co As to say he was universally considered the best Well That's just an opinion Not a fact The fact is Ruud gullit was voted player of the year by world soccer in 1989 ahead of van basten https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Soccer_(magazine) The fact is hristo stoichkov won the onze d'or in 1992 ahead of van basten https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onze_d'Or These are equally prestigious awards Milan won more trophies with van basten than Manchester United did with Cristiano ronaldo? Van basten was more technical than Cristiano ronaldo Pes stats rates Ronaldo 07/08 95 in technique which is red territory For anyone who is familiar with pes stats rating system red signifies GOAT level technique territory Pes stats rates prime van basten 93 Which is just half a step below What else is left ? Van basten was never the top ranked Serie A player by DBS calcio Not in 88,89,90,91,92,93 He was always in a group amongst the best Not the absolute best Ronaldo 08 was according to all voting agencies the best 2007/08 is as dominant a club season as anyone in history has had As unanimous a season as anyone has had Van basten did not have that complete season Lionel Messi 10/11 Cristiano Ronaldo 07/08 Ronaldinho gaucho 05/06 Platini 83/84 Messi 2014/15 Are complete seasons Across all club levels (and in platinis case even international which could theoretically give him an added bonus) What else are people talking about if not prime ? People got confused about his hard work and dedication and forgot Ronaldo 2007-2010 was a relentless machine A machine with flair and creativity
Fun fact: Marco Van basten scored 254 non penalty goals in his whole career https://www.transfermarkt.com/marco-van-basten/elfmetertore/spieler/74471 Cristiano ronaldo scored 256 goals with his left foot and head If his right foot was a player Cristiano 'right foot' Ronaldo 463 goals in 1002 appearances:0.46 https://messivsronaldo.net/ Thierry Henry career 411 goals in 915 games:0.45 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Henry
But this fun fact can be given in retort.... It took him till his 3rd Euros tournament to score 3 goals over the tournament. It took Van Basten till his first full Euros game to score 3 goals over the 90 minutes.
To be more precise: until 16 teams entered the competition, UEFA included for sensible reasons also the qualifying rounds among the goals (this was before the break-up of Europe too; increasing the members from 32 to 50+). He was with 16 goals the all-time topscorer for a moment... No European player had more goals. (I'll not reply to all the drivel by carlito; not just here but also all the repeated bashing in other threads)
His first goal, talking of headers, in that sequence was actually a very good one I noticed (replay at about 2:54 here): Very nice assist for Gullit's winning goal too, with neat turn and good pass - I remember you said that their partnership took a while to gel overall though - I guess Gullit was playing as right winger here not alongside Van Basten. I remember that Scifo scored a header vs Ireland too in the mid 80s, from even further out!
A sample size of 10 ~matches How about careers? It took klaus allofs 30 minutes to score a Hattrick vs the Netherlands in the 1980 Euro championships (Second Euro match in his career ) It took Marco van basten 31 minutes to score a Hattrick vs England in the 1988 Euro championship https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UEFA_European_Championship_hat-tricks klaus allofs>Marco van basten >Cristiano ronaldo Logic
Mate, you know Klaus Allofs didn't go on to score a wonder goal in the Final after playing an excellent semi-final in which he won the penalty to seal the victory, I know you do. I do think it's also unfair to talk about a career comparison with a player whose career was cut short. Anyway, maybe my mistake to contribute because I have no desire to argue and maybe we should stay away from discussions/arguments regarding C.Ronaldo (or your idea of some old legends being over-rated...even if while you were making that case about Pele you did make some interesting posts about some lesser known legends I noticed re: Santos today). If we stick to appreciating the skills of Dragan Stojkovic and things like that it is probably better!
Maybe I misunderstood you You said: "In retort It took van basten only his first game to score 3 goals in a european championship" Ok Was this an impressive achievement within itself or only impressive with the benefit of hindsight? Is van basten scoring a Hattrick in his first Euro group match impressive only because he went on to score an amazing goal vs the Soviets later on in the tournament Or is it impressive because it was his first match? If it's the former Then yeah Marco van basten had in euro 1988 over 5 matches a more iconic international tournament than c.Ronaldo Agreed If it's the latter Klaus allofs scored a 30 minute Hattrick vs the Netherlands 80 in only his 2nd match At a faster rate and against arguably an even stronger outfit than the England team faced by van basten Yeah than perhaps he shouldn't be compared to anyone And he should only be compared to similarly talented players who had their career cut prematurely Like tostao for example Before we lose sight of things I wasnt even comparing Cristianos career to van basten I was comparing his left foot and head to the career of van basten Sounds like a good idea
Ok, yeah, re: the last sentence, no problem, agreed. I think I had had in mind at first (when seeing your post) the fact that two of Van Basten's goals were left footed that day, and to be fair I would say that his collection of goals for the hat-trick was certainly more impressive compared to those of Allofs in 1980 (and very likely he played a significantly better overall game, although to be fair I haven't seen all of that game from 1980 minute by minute). But I'll give you credit for digging out that factoid as your own retort I guess lol! And like I say I'll not continue the back and forth about it after this clarification. I wouldn't say Van Basten or any other player should be automatically disqualified as being thought of as one of the best ever, based on lack of longevity due to injuries (or lack of numbers due to playing in a particular era primarily), but I know that nowadays it is quite common for people to go down that route when analysing and I won't say it is invalid as such.
This isn't true Only partially 50% of van bastens entire career haul came playing for Ajax (152 out of 301 career goals) At their peak in the eredivisie Ajax scored at an even higher rate than Barcelona or real Madrid Ajax 1985/86 120 league goals in 34 matches 3.52 gpg https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/marco-van-basten/leistungsdaten/spieler/74471/plus/0?saison=1985 In fact in all competitions Ajax 85/86 scored 143 goals in just 44 matches:3.25 gpg https://www.afc-ajax.info/en/season/1985-86 Real Madrid la liga 2011/12 121 goals in 38 matches 3.18 gpg Barcelona la liga 2011/12 114 goals in 38 matches 3 gpg
A 22/23 year old free role winger with 1gpg in Europe's elite league(ELO/Uefa coefficient) 31 goals in 2747 minutes(30.5 games) 3.2~dribbles completed per 90 36.9 passes avg per 90 0.95 tackles per 90 3.86 crosses attempted per 90 https://www.premierleague.com/players/2522/Cristiano-Ronaldo/stats?co=1&se=16 https://www.dagbladet.no/sport/cristiano-dribler-mer-enn-zlatan/66428814 Countless yards covered with his ball carrying Goals and assists vs top 4 teams, A world class dribbler,FK specialist,fantastic in the air even at that age,genuinely two footed
30 minutes played 3 key passes 6 completed dribbles 15 completed passes 1 penalty won https://www.reddit.com/r/Manchester...source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_title He was already box office stuff at 17 years old just listen to the crowd erupt everytime he touches the ball https://www.theguardian.com/football/2003/aug/18/match.manchesterunited Sam allerdayce( Boltons then manager) said "He reminds me of Ryan giggs when he was younger he can go inside, outside, uses both feet and runs at people. Everyone holds their breath when he gets the ball" Even George best said it was the most exciting debut performance hed ever seen live Ronaldo is really an iconic player for whoever has followed and witnessed him go through so many different transformations as a player A generational talent and gifted winger who became a all time historic goalscorer(less than 30 goals away from Pele now) Its remarkable in all honesty @Edhardy @celito @Tropeiro @Sexy Beast
Peak crossing/wingplay 2004-2008 2:28 4:46 0:50 1:08 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OvlsMyKH_Z4 4:38 Peak dribbling Peak/total player 2011 calender year (la liga) https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/...1-La-Liga-Player-and-Young-Player-of-the-Year Here for full breakdown https://www.transfermarkt.com.hr/sp...ichtung=alle&land_id=0&compFilter=top5&plus=1 43 goals+13 assists in 32 league games during the 2011 calender year (while still retaining a great deal of flair and heavily involved In the creativity and build up Of plays in the final third) Peak 'total goalscorer' La liga 2014 calender year https://www.whoscored.com/Graphics/2979/Show/WhoScoreds-Top-100 38 goals+13 assists in 26 league matches (2380 minutes) https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spi...ichtung=alle&land_id=0&compFilter=top5&plus=1 In reality Ronaldo 2014 was directly involved in 2 goals per 90 over the course of an entire calender year The 2nd half of that year was beyond unreal https://mobile.twitter.com/mixedknuts/status/524228574312534018 https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/...a-Liga-201415-Winter-Break-Statistical-Roundu Only player that supersedes this level of efficiency is Lionel Messi from 2 years earlier Maybe/very possibly Lionel Messi that played between January and December 2012 in a league context is the best version of a player that ever lived Maybe Pele(1962 or 1963?) Check for yourself This is a very good link that collates data all the way back to 1996 calender year https://www.transfermarkt.com.hr/statistik/jahrestorschuetzen People are talking about Ronaldos prime and cant even pinpoint when that was When he was at his zenith in the 2013 and 2014 calender years winning back to back ballon dors Cristiano Ronaldo scored a completely ridiculous combined total of 76 goals+27 wide assists in 5038 league minutes(56 league matches) This is a real verifiable number Van basten doesn't sniff this Not with ankle injuries and not without not in the eredivisie(with 3+ GPG averages) and not in Italy The champions league is something else I shouldn't even have to get into https://mobile.twitter.com/OptaJose/status/1258446427568721920 That's 4 completed dribbles per 90 in the champions league from the ages of 18-24 Add to that 11 champions league KO goals by 24 years old Open play clutch goals in the R16,QF,SF and final Forget about the real Madrid years The comparison is erroneous IMO http://www.rsssf.com/players/vanbasten-in-ec.html Van basten had maybe 5 goals in big European matches in his career And he played his last game at 27 years old(not 24 year's old) Refer to alessandro del pieros CL record aged 24(in 1998) before the injury for what is expected of a elite player who is the spearheads a pre 21st century era superteam The rest(of his record) is a goal against a psychologically demoralised red star Belgrade https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/24573761 4 goals against IFK Goteborg in the inaugural 'champions league' which was like lewandowski putting 4 past (a now subpar )red star Belgrade last year Several multi goal games against random European village teams(from Bulgaria,Luxembourg,Sweden etc) The further you look into it without the blindfolds(being outscored by aldo Serena 1989 in Serie A- the Year van basten won the BD) It doesn't stack up even for a second Its enough to say van basten was one of the greatest players of his era in an era in which there were many equally talented and accomplished players I use the analogy of tostao who was considered by many to be as good or even slightly better in Brazil than post peak Pele https://cruzeiropedia.org/Eduardo_Gonçalves_Andrade That school of thought existed And tostao actually won world cup as an integral player yet tostao doesn't find himself forcefully inserted into all time player discussions A prime or defined peak is not about discussing who was better in 1 or few isolated matches Van basten never ever had a single season comparable to any of Ronaldos top 5 campaigns 88/89 89/90 91/92 You'd have to be kidding me mate Check the DBS calcio ratings to see how he was perceived on a consistent game to game basis About the technique and aesthetic value I won't get into that You are entitled to your opinion regarding an entirely subjective matter