Random World Cup Facts

Discussion in 'World Cup 2018 - Russia' started by benztown, Jun 24, 2005.

  1. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Yet, since 1994, France scored more goals in world cup final than all the rest of the world combined. :D

    Goals in final since 1994 :
    • France: 8
    • Croatia: 2
    • Brazil: 2
    • Germany: 1
    • Spain: 1
    • Italy: 1
     
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  2. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    SF North Bay
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Other than the Bolivia exclusion (see below), I don't disagree with this list, but I think it's worth mentioning that there is a dispute about how to count final 8 teams for the 1930, 1950, and 1982 World Cups, as in the first two of those World Cups, teams went directly from group play to the final four, and in the latter they went to the semi-finals from the final 12, thus not establishing a clear final 8. For example, you included Brazil as being in the final 8 in 1930 and 1982 (in 1950 they obviously were). An argument could be made for that, as they finished second in their group play in those years, but it can also be argued that it is a somewhat false notion, as they never advanced to a true final 8.

    Moreover, if finishing second in one's group is the criteria to be applied, then one would have to include Bolivia in 1950, even though they only played one match (two countries in the group had dropped out of the competition before play commenced), and they lost their only match to Uruguay 0-8! I notice you didn't include them, and I agree it is rather absurd to do so, but technically they should be included as a "final 8" team, if we are to include others based on finishing second in their group play.

    Just food for thought. :geek:
     
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  3. HansWorldCup

    HansWorldCup Member

    Roma
    Sweden
    Jan 10, 2018
    2014 qualification Sweden were with Germany and 2018 qualify Sweden were with France.
     
  4. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yep ... so strange !
     
  5. Every Four Years

    May 16, 2015
    Johns Creek, Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    The 1930 and 1950 World Cups were the only ones without a UEFA team in the final. The 1930 edition is the only one to date which did not see a UEFA team finish in the top three, as their best finisher was 4th-placed Yugoslavia (note: no third-place match was actually played, but FIFA retroactively ranked all the teams many years later).

    The 1930 and 1950 WC's were also the only two to not feature Germany, and both were won by the same team: Uruguay.
     
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  6. GabrielT

    GabrielT New Member

    Galatasaray
    Uruguay
    Jul 21, 2018
    In 2018 WC for the first time Brazil, Argentina or Germany did not make to semi-final. In past world cups at least one of them was in semi-finals.
     
  7. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I think that was mentioned already.
     
  8. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    In the last 8 editions of the world cup, the winner turned out to be either a country bordering France or France itself.
     
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  9. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    SF North Bay
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    #2159 Hayaka, Jul 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
    Except for Brazil in 1994 and 2002, of course.

    Edit: Oh, I got it. You're including French Guiana as part of France. Well, with respect to football, I'm not sure that's the right way to look at it. After all, French Guiana has their own national team, unlike say, Aquitaine or Lorraine.
     
  10. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    French Guiana's national team is actually France. The French Guianese football team is a local team which is only allowed to play local competitions within CONCACAF and is not part of FIFA.

    French Guiana is not allowed to play under its own name against national teams outside of CONCACAF (such as Denmark, Japan or Cameroon) for the simple reason that, at FIFA level, French Guiana is represented as part of France. And indeed, all French Guianese people are eligible to play for the French national team. Famous example being Bernard Lama (world champion 1998) or Florent Malouda (runner-up 2006).

    Football in French Guiana is administered by the French Football Federation through its local branch, the Ligue de Guyane de Football, with the exact same status as the Ligue d'Aquitaine de Football. Its clubs participate to the Coupe de France and so on and so forth. So yeah, in football terms, France indeed borders Brazil through French Guiana. :)
     
  11. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    SF North Bay
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Didn't French Guiana get into trouble for having Malouda play for them, when he had already been capped for France many times?

    Also, IMO, there is something a bit creepy about making claims like this that are the result of the snatching of territory in another part of the world, and never giving it back. France is the only colonial power that still does that, if I'm not mistaken, aside from a few tiny islands here and there.
     
  12. Every Four Years

    May 16, 2015
    Johns Creek, Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    Floret Malouda played for French Guiana against Honduras last year at the Gold Cup. He had previously been allowed to play in the Caribbean Cup without any trouble. However, CONCACAF had regulations stating that Gold Cup teams could not field players who had previously been capped by other countries. French Guiana ignored this and played Malouda anyway, and thus forfeited the match against Honduras (which originally finished 0-0). Bizarrely, this meant that Honduras actually advanced to the quarterfinals of the Gold Cup without actually physically putting the ball in the back of the net.

    Re France claiming French Guiana as part of its country, I believe the French claim is that French Guiana is not merely a colonial possession (a la British India), but an integral part of France proper, the same way, say, Alaska, is part of the United States.

    Legally, French Guiana is considered an "overseas department" and has full parliamentary representation in France (unlike Guam and Puerto Rico, for example, in the United States).

    Technicalities, maybe, but that is the official claim.
     
  13. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    #2163 Metropolitan, Jul 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
    We have only one citizenship in France which applies the same way to everyone, everywhere, no matter if they live in Aquitaine or French Guiana.

    CONCACAF agreed with FFF on a rule saying that any French citizen could play for the French Guiana team as long as they haven't played for France in the last 5 years. However, if a player has played in the French Guiana team, he can still join the French national team immediately.

    Florent Malouda played in respect with that rule, those who complained told that the rule was different than the one applying to "other countries" in FIFA ignoring the fact that French Guiana isn't a FIFA member in the first place.

    You should ask the question to the Martiniquan Aimé Césaire. This is the choice of the overseas department themselves.

    At the end of colonization, the question was asked whether the French Caribbean (Guadeloupe, Martinique and French Guiana) would become independent. French Caribbeans opted instead to join fully the French Republic, precisely like Hawaii joined the US. That's just a result of their choice.

    Now I know that people find that weird but probably it comes from the fact that the French citizenship is not really understand outside our own borders. For us, there's really no problem with the idea that Guianese people can be just as French as the average Jean in Paris, but foreigners are obviously uncomfortable with that idea.
     
  14. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    SF North Bay
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    I would say the situation is ambiguous at best, with French Guiana fielding their own national team (unlike any other part of France) and an ocean away from France proper. But we can agree to disagree. :speechless:
     
  15. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    French Guiana didn't "ignore" this. Both teams representing French Guiana and France are governed by the very same Football association, the French Football Federation (FFF), official member representing France in FIFA.

    CONCACAF accepted from start French Guiana to participate in its local competitions under the specific rules I've mentioned in my earlier post. The whole idea that French Guiana didn't respect the FIFA rules is out of the point considering that French Guiana is not a FIFA member.

    Not only Florent Malouda could perfectly play for the Caribbean Cup as he did, but Jocelyn Angloma also played the very same Gold Cup with Guadeloupe in the very same conditions in 2007 without any problem. The rules were perfectly clear and it's actually CONCACAF which has broken its very own rules in condemning French Guiana.
     
  16. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Hawaii is even further from New York than French Guiana is from Paris and also an ocean away from the mainland US. But you don't find it "creepy" that it is a US state?

    For what it matters, French Guiana isn't a national team, it's a local team only allowed to play in local competitions. As I told earlier, French Guiana isn't allowed to play against a none-CONCACAF nation, even for a friendly.
     
  17. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    SF North Bay
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Ask a native Hawaiian sometime how they feel about the haoles.
     
  18. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    #2168 Metropolitan, Jul 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
    Any place is different and should be respected as such.

    Let's take two French territories: Mayotte and New Caledonia. Both had a special status but their citizens being French, both are also free to organize local referendums in order to make evolve their status. In 2009, Mayotte organized a referendum on its departementalization (to become integral part of France) and the "yes" won with 95%. As a result, Mayotte became the 101st French department in 2011. New Caledonia made the exact opposite choice, and will organize a referendum for its independance in next november. If the "yes" win, hey liberty for them.

    The French government will never say it but I'm pretty sure that if he had to choose, he would have liked better to keep New Caledonia, with its natural ressources, rather than Mayotte, with no ressources and a very costly illegal immigration problem. But the French constitution guarantees rights to its citizens which would be broken otherwise. If Mayotte wants to be part of the French Republic and New Caledonia doesn't, then so be it.
     
  19. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    SF North Bay
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    We are getting pretty far off the subject matter of this thread, but I'll just say I'm not particularly impressed with voting results in the 21st or even the 20th century in these colonies. By then the die had already been cast (a fait accompli if you will), and whatever sovereignty and ability to sustain a traditional life had been eviscerated under decades if not centuries of colonial subjugation. Often the descendants of the original inhabitants weren't even around any more, having been wiped out or reduced to a tiny fragment of their original numbers.

    More interesting would have been if France and the other colonial countries back in the period of early contact had thought to inquire what the indigenous peoples thought about being sucked into the empire and culture of some distant land, but of course that was not a question the colonialists ever bothered to ask.
     
  20. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    #2170 Metropolitan, Jul 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
    I'm not sure I really follow you here, are you actually talking about the US?

    I respect your feeling, but what you describe is just History of Humanity. Ancient Greece colonized Italy, Romans colonized Gauls, Normans colonized Britain, Britain colonized North America, the US colonized the West, and so on and so forth. At one point or another, we are all the products of colonial subjugation.

    No matter if you want to see in them subjugated colonials or free citizens, Guianese people still won their second star no matter what. And you can't take that out of them.

    Peace to you and your family.

     
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  21. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    SF North Bay
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    So you recognize the depravity of colonialism, and yet you seem to be celebrating that these Guianese are all French men or women. Look at that, they love being French!

    The truth is that France never had any right to seize this land in South America and claim it for its own, and the Amerindians who lived there at the time were never given any say in the matter, while they were eventually reduced until only a few thousand are left.

    But Vive la France!
     
  22. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    #2172 Metropolitan, Jul 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
    Can't we stop with the political hijack here? This thread is about random world cup facts in the first place.

    Yeah, we are a nation of mixed-blood bastards, who took over illegitimate Monarchs and declared ourselves free and equal. And the worst is that we're even proud of that.

    Yo ho, all hands hoist the blue, white and red high
    Heave ho, thieves and beggars, never shall we die!

     
  23. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    Hey man, stop with the victimization and virtue signaling already.

    Incas/Aztecs/Mayans/etc were also colonizers in their own regions... how do you think they were empires by the time of European conquest?

    Europeans used oppressed aboriginal groups as allies against aboriginal empires... and made sure to wipe out such new allies after main war was won.

    Aboriginal empires got toppled by European empires.
    Nothing to celebrate, but the entire historical context should be told as well.

    Maybe those aboriginal empires should have been *nicer* to fellow humans, after all.

    Using your words, those aboriginal empires should:
    "back in the period of early contact had thought to inquire what the indigenous peoples thought about being sucked into the empire and culture of some distant land, but of course that was not a question the colonialists ever bothered to ask."
    And don't make bring up the sale of African captives by African kingdoms either.

    Can we get back to Random World Cup Facts now?

    Pretty please, with sugar on top.
     
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  24. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    SF North Bay
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    #2174 Hayaka, Jul 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
    I never said France was any better or any worse than the other colonizers. I reacted to Metropolitan's statement about all the other World Cup champions (including Brazil) being adjacent to "France", and his apparent rhapsodizing over French Guianans "fully French" status, as if that made the whole bitter history of how those things happened totally okay.

    Anyway, I was already done with this, that weird reference to pirates notwithstanding. He can have the last word, if he wants.
     
  25. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Yeah I agree, my last reference sucked. I'll give you that. :laugh:


    To go back to world cup facts, France and Denmark played in the same group every time one of either side won a euro (1984, 1992, 2000) or a world cup (1998, 2018).
     
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