General Discussion - ALL ASSIGNMENTS

Discussion in 'World Cup 2018: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 13, 2018.

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  1. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Just like how Faghani closed his eyes when Otamendi committed violent conduct in the France-Argentina game, yet you conveniently seem to gloss over that.
     
    Mirepo repped this.
  2. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    What is your obsession with Faghani/Geiger comparisons in the first place?

    Anyway, to point out the obvious differences between what I explained and what you repeatedly bring up like a broken record:

    1- I doubt very much anyone thought Faghani was favorably disposed towards either side. I don't think he speaks either French or Spanish or has any Argentine/French connections. Therefore, the idea that he would have (wrongly) felt any need to bend backwards to appease any side in that game doesn't apply. Which is what I was commenting on the issue you quoted.
    2- Other than some folks on this board, I haven't seen anyone question Faghani's judgment on the calls he made, including on the Otamendi incident. In fact, Faghani went through 4 matches without VAR once intervening with anything he had decided. Geiger's decisions/game management were blasted in many media reports and by many former referees and the like.
    3- Unlike what I have alluded to regarding Geiger's game management and decisions, the Otamendi incident, coming at the dying minutes of a match that was decided already, with Argentina losing the match, didn't affect the course of the game.
    4- I actually think the decision not to show a red card to Otamendi under the circumstances was a wise decision. Unlike the errors in judgment I have referenced regarding Geiger, that decision helped the game finish more smoothly than otherwise.
    5- Geiger wasn't given any more CR assignments because his game management in the England-Colombia match left much to be desired. Faghani was one of the prime candidates to whistle the final and got the 3rd place match because his game management was actually very good. But since Geiger was given VAR and other officiating duties, I have to conclude that FIFA felt his failings were mostly with respect to game management and not his fluency with respect to the LOTG and their application. Which sounds right to me too because none of his calls, in isolation and standing alone, were indefensible.
     
    M repped this.
  3. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I’m sorry, I didn’t know that you were sitting in with the committee that made decisions on referee assignments and know what the committee was basing decisions on. And that they had F as a prime candidate for the final! Can you give us more quotes from those meetings?

    If FIFA agreed with the criticism of Geiger, he wouldn’t have been kept at the WC. And there are far too many criteria in play to say that him not getting another whistle proves FIFA didn’t like his management. Including the fact that, whether many observers like it or not, much of the management of G that has been criticized was in line with what appear to have been instructions on what FIFA wanted. (Some of that is true re F as well.)

    Comparing F’s and G’s games is apples and oranges. They were very, very different games. F did some good work at the Cup. Hats off to him. But so did G. Neither was perfect; neither sucked. Why the obsession with these comparisons is beyond me.
     
  4. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    Okay, since I can't prove it with quotes, I will take it back if it makes you feel better: Faghani wasn't one of the prime candidates for the final!

    As for the comparisons: If someone tells me that I am applying a different standard for Faghani than for Geiger (which is something I am told all the time here), I will respond to make the distinctions that I feel need to be made. But I agree that there is no reason to even make such comparisons in the first place. The obsession is with those who constantly want to bring Faghani into a discussion that had nothing to do with anything I had said.
     
  5. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    So basically you are saying it's now OK for a player to kick the ball at the head at a prone opponent. I'm glad we have that straight. Not sure if that's because you aren't willing to admit your countryman was wrong or there is a new definition of violent conduct of which I'm not aware, but at least I know where you stand.
     
  6. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Interesting discussion. I’m actually attending a seminar this Saturday and the main speaker is none other than Mark Geiger!

    It will be interesting to hear what he has to say.
     
    jazehr repped this.
  7. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The real interesting stuff would be after a few drinks... :)
     
  8. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You should surround him to ask your questions!! :laugh:
     
    Paul Calixte, OkieZebra, Battler and 2 others repped this.
  9. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    Forget Faghani, forget Geiger for a second. Lets just focus see whether we can have a conversation about how we each look at what we want from a referee in the kind of situations we are discussing?

    I personally don't believe even the same exact incidents in two different games should be treated the same exact way without looking at the larger context. This is what I consider part of the game management skills a referee brings and which aren't something you can put into any formula. It is about judgment, something you can't teach in any seminar, but which is as important in game management than being technically correct in each case.

    Let say that you had the same exact incident we saw with Otamendi in the England-Colombia match during the first half, except a Colombian player is the one kicking the ball at an English player in a prone position. In that game, at that point and in that context, anything less than a straight red card would simply mean you would be losing control over the game. Of course, if you have been too lenient and appeasing before this red card, the red card itself might still cause problems. Which is why game management isn't about just cards and isolated decisions. It is about the tone you set and the demeanor you show from early enough in the game in light of what a game requires for it to run as smoothly as possible.

    Now, lets assume an Otamendi like incident occurs late in the England-Colombia match but England is winning 2:0. At this point, if a referee decides to not to show a red card but a yellow instead, to a side looking to turn the game into a riot, I would understand. It would probably help the game end better than it would otherwise.

    That is how I see it. Doesn't mean you need to see it the same way, but this has little to do with the nationality of the referees at issue. I support Faghani because he is from Iran, that is true. But I do it only in cases where I feel the support is appropriate in context. If Faghani had a bad World Cup (any referee can), I might have tried to lessen any "over the top" reaction, but I wouldn't try to pretend he was great.
     
  10. jesta

    jesta Member

    Feb 9, 2014
    this was not trolling, you have both zero sense for humor, and moderator who gave me yellow card for that shouldn't do that job either. when you moderate the forum you should read other posts from someone before you get driven by reply like those written by two of you. especially written by newbie like @RefIADad ??? red card??? come on .....

    once again, geiger is a decent ref, but he has nothing to do at the highest level, as any other american referee. you patriotism is cool but open your eyes, this is world cup and not MLS. geiger got big part at it and he should be very happy with that, nothing more was possible. VAR booth at game 63 is fine and appropriate for his level!
     
  11. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then why has FIFA invited him to two World Cups, an Olympics, Confederation's Cup, Club World Cup, and was the referee for an U20 World Cup final?
     
  12. jesta

    jesta Member

    Feb 9, 2014
    sure, they invite refs from all around the world, it is world cup and it must be that way, but some people here were really expecting him to get the semis or even the final, and they were all americans :D
     
  13. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's your point and who really cares? Nothing wrong with people being proud of his accomplishments or hoping for the best for him.

    Brych was probably most of the world's favorite to get the final depending on Germany's performance, and he didn't get past the group stage even though Germany were out.

    It seems like your hard on for hating on Geiger is even bigger than those here that were hoping he'd get a semi or the final :rolleyes:
     
  14. jesta

    jesta Member

    Feb 9, 2014
    hating??? you miss the point, same as the other three.
    he is a good ref, otherwise he wouldnt have been at the world cup, and it is a great thing for him and for football in america as well, I find that great, but people expecting him to ger semis or the final ... that was really sweet.
     
  15. USSF REF

    USSF REF Member

    Red Bull NY
    United States
    Nov 6, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Accusing Americans of bias... Your own anti American bias is showing.
     
  16. jesta

    jesta Member

    Feb 9, 2014
    nope, pretty much the opposite actually, but football in america is quite funny for us ... you even call it wrong and have draft etc .... sorry but that's really funny :D

    OK, I think we should stick back to topic ... I just wanted to point that humor is not trolling!
     
  17. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have to concede, as an American, that I am happy that Geiger didn't get the final (not that there was any chance of that once his ARs were sent home). Who needs the sort of being under the microscope that that assignment involves? It's possible to come out of that game smelling like roses, but with the entire world focusing on every call, the chances of the opposite are just too great. However, I'm sure that Geiger himself feels differently.
     
  18. jesta

    jesta Member

    Feb 9, 2014
  19. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Geiger spoke to a group that I was a part of a few months ago and said that his international career was over. With younger refs coming up, it makes perfect sense to give them more field time and have Geiger behind the monitor.
     

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