General Discussion - ALL ASSIGNMENTS

Discussion in 'World Cup 2018: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just dawned on me that I forgot to start a thread like this. And, without it, conversations are going to be everywhere. So this thread is to generally discuss assignments. Predictions, announcement or changes, thoughts, analysis of the assignments, rumors, etc., etc. Hopefully this keeps that sort of discussion centralized and focused and allows the match threads to be about the matches!

    So, fire away!

    My first thought is that FIFA has come out with the big guns and--as expected--referees intimately familiar with VAR. The opener, Portugal-Spain and even Uruguay-Egypt were always going to have some big name referees. But FIFA has gone with three referees who also have loads of VAR experience. The next batch or two of assignments is where things have to start to get interesting.
     
  2. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    If pattern holds, Geiger and Marrufo should be probably working Saturday on one of the four matches that day.

    He could really be on any of those four games. France vs. Australia would probably be the best match for him in terms of doing well.

    France should win comfortably and it shouldn't be overly problematic in terms of having to make big decisions.
     
  3. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    Mark's last WC game was France, would that have any bearing at all?
     
  4. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Considering he missed a potential/possible (I thought it should have been a red) red card against France (Nigerian player had to leave the game as a result of the tackle) and, maybe, a penalty for Nigeria as well, I doubt France would object to him being on the game.

    Nigeria vs. Argentina is the game where I think there could be, potential, problems of him appearing on the game. Nigeria could possibly veto the assignment.
     
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the opportunity to "veto" is almost non-existent in the group stage. It's more of a (late) knockout round thing. Regardless, there's no real need to put him on the Nigeria match so I doubt it will be done.

    On the other point about him working as a whistle soon, If Geiger is a VAR on Friday or Saturday, he could be waiting a little bit for a whistle assignment because there won't be quick turnaround in situations like that since an official needs to focus on one match at a time. We need to see the totality of these assignments for Friday to get a better handle of what's going on, but it seems like FIFA wants experienced VARs early, so you could see Geiger on one of the Group B games.
     
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  6. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like you mentioned in the other thread, I keep forgetting that there are PLENTY of matches to go around. For context, in 2010, Webb only had 2 group stage matches and Nishimura had 3 (ones as a 4th). With 48 matches, it feels more anxious/imminent than it really is.
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, there aren't that many matches to go around. We're at 35 referees, nominally. It seems pretty certain anywhere from 5 to 9 of those referees will only be fourth officials, but we're still in the high 20s range which means some referees will only get one group stage match.

    And, it should be noted, that's not necessarily a terrible thing. Collina himself, for example, did one group stage match in 2002. Then he got a relatively benign R16 match before being set aside for the Final.

    We're going to be trying to read a lot into things at the end of the group stage on the referees who only get 1 match. But hopefully it will be clear; some will be the lower-strength referees who get their "one and done," while others will have only received one match to keep them clean and ready for the knockout stage.
     
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  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Good point about Collina. His group stage game was a big one-England vs Argentina. For many reasons (Falklands, rematch of 1998, the Beckham-Simeone incident), I don’t think anyone other than Collina could have been on that game.

    I may be wrong, but I’d say we look at quality of games rather than quantity when trying to read into anyone’s assignments. If Geiger gets the whistle for a game like Argentina-Croatia, I’d say he’s in the mix for a late round game if things go well. For example, I think it’s pretty obvious why Kuipers has Spain-Portugal.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    100% correct. Though the definition of "quality" can vary as the tournament unfolds. The marquee big-name matches aren't necessarily the highest quality ones. For example, if Switzerland v Costa Rica determines who finishes second in that group, then it's a pretty big match from a refereeing perspective.

    Geiger is already in the mix for a late round knockout match. There are a few referees--like Kuipers, Cakir, Geiger and Irmatov--who have the luxury (or burden) of only being able to play themselves out of the latter knockout stages, rather than play themselves in. Performance will always matter most, but those four referees and maybe a couple others have a tiebreaker in their corner because of their World Cup experience, lack of a national team present, and--for Kuipers and Geiger--familiarity with VAR. Rocchi also likely falls into this category, despite not being at 2014.

    Rocchi has that match, but still. In the case of that particular match, I think FIFA wanted a top UEFA referee who has VAR experience. The need for VAR to go well the first few matches cannot be overstated. So this was always Rocchi, Kuipers or Brych in my book.
     
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  11. code1390

    code1390 Member+

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm actually somewhat optimistic about VAR during the World Cup which is not something I expected to say six months ago. Of course there will be controversial moments because that can't be avoided when you play 64 high pressure football matches. Also, every slightly controversial moment will be blown out of proportion as an example of a VAR failure. But, I'm somewhat confident that it won't be an absolute disaster than scars FIFA for years.
     
  12. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Thanks, MassRef-Massive brain cramp on Kuipers vs Rocchi. I think we are saying the same thing about Geiger. Given he had a knockout stage game in 2014 and was the fourth on a semi, I agree he’s definitely a late round favorite. Still, he has to perform well in the games he has. I think he will perform well. I know people will point to Mexico-Panama in 2015, but one game can’t define a career.
     
  13. greek ref

    greek ref Member

    Feb 27, 2013
    Club:
    Panathinaikos Athens
    Nat'l Team:
    Greece
    It basically says that VAR appointments will be made public 24h before a match.
     
  14. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    In a different thread, there was mention of "simulated matches" for referees to train on. Thought it made more sense for this thread.

    Can someone explain to me how a simulated match works? What is a referee looking for? Has anyone here ever done one?
     
  15. code1390

    code1390 Member+

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Collina said they had a tournament with 8 local professional teams that some of the referees worked for practice. I guess what that person called a simulated match we'd call more of an exhibition match.
     
  16. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Well it makes sense as VARs won't be at the actual stadiums. They will all be in Moscow. So no need to make travel and hotel arrangements.

    That's one of the reasons they can wait longer to announce.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Saturday's referee assignments are confirmed.

    Cunha for France-Australia and Gassama for Peru-Denmark, which is actually a huge match and one where I expected someone like Irmatov, so that does sort of confirm Gassama is in pole position coming from Africa.

    In Group D, it's Ricci for Croatia-Nigeria and Marciniak for Argentina-Iceland, so confederational neutrality is out the window pretty quickly, which is both smart and makes predicting assignments a lot tougher.
     
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  18. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Maybe I'm reading too much into, but is it possible that Argentina nixed someone else? Could teams possibly have a veto option in the group stage?That they just have a preference for Europeans?

    At the 2014 World Cup, they played 7 matches and all of them except the first one were refereed by a European referee. They got Joel Aguilar in the first game against Bosnia and the rest were all European referees.

    In the group stage of that World Cup, Confederation neutrality was followed for Argentina, but not in the knockout stage.

    Again, probably a huge coincidence, but to have your last 7 and 7 out of 8 matches at the World Cup refereed by a European referee is highly unlikely.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you're probably reading too much into it regarding the "veto" angle. Think about it the other way. If Busacca and company already know Argentina has little-to-no problem with (certain*) European referees, they are more comfortable making the appointment.

    *I say "certain" because remember that Eriksson was one of the guys they didn't want, on top of not necessarily wanting a non-UEFA official
     
  20. greek ref

    greek ref Member

    Feb 27, 2013
    Club:
    Panathinaikos Athens
    Nat'l Team:
    Greece
    Argentina did veto on Irmatov on the last WC.
     
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  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting that despite FIFA saying AVAR1 functions as the "deputy" and AVAR2 is the dedicated assistant, the way they published the assignments for match 1 (which they finally did this morning) are reversed right now:

    https://www.fifa.com/worldcup/matches/match/300331503/#match-info

    Practically it doesn't matter at all, but it is interesting that FIFA has confusion on even naming these roles. It really shows that this is still experimental.
     
  22. greek ref

    greek ref Member

    Feb 27, 2013
    Club:
    Panathinaikos Athens
    Nat'l Team:
    Greece
    This appointment scares me a lot.
     
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  23. greek ref

    greek ref Member

    Feb 27, 2013
    Club:
    Panathinaikos Athens
    Nat'l Team:
    Greece
    Here they have it correct.

    https://resources.fifa.com/image/up...-pdf-2956163.pdf?cloudid=sfkme5xrf0odzcubl5ua
     
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  24. code1390

    code1390 Member+

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Trusting @ArbitroInteBlog on Twitter, mostly. Sometimes a domestic FA is announcing the appointment beforehand and there is a second source to help support his confirmation.

    It's pretty amazing how poor FIFA is at this right now. It's something they've done well in the past. And it's something UEFA handles with ease.
     

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