By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
  1. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Country:
    Philippines

    Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

    By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
    Okay, no, I probably would not have started a multi-part dissection of an accounting firm report, no matter how outrageously horrible it was, had I known that the US men would fail to qualify for the World Cup. And since events in the American soccer world are, shall we say, proceeding apace, I should probably stop indulging myself with this. What can I say? If you’ve got the dead horse, I’ve got the bat.

    I mean, hell, my beloved Galaxy did more pooch-screwing than Spuds McKenzie on its way to the championship of the Brown Creek Regatta, and I can barely summon the attention to be mad about it, let alone inflict you with “America’s Sweethearts Enter Fourth Year of Heartbreak.”

    There is one important point I think genuinely needs to be made before we finally bury this report, and the idea of promotion and relegation in the United States.

    The NASL enjoyed considerable success in terms of capturing the imagination of the nation, with clubs such as the New York Cosmos enjoying high attendances and fielding notable stars including Pelé.

    Ultimately though the league over spent to attract these players, ultimately going out of business in 1984.

    Pelé obviously never played on a team trying for promotion, and he didn’t play on a team even theoretically worried about relegation until after he had won two World Cups. Also, using “ultimately” twice in one sentence is pretty crappy writing.

    Those aren’t the important points I wanted to make. Those are just me mocking how poorly this report was prepared. But there is actually one very important point this report missed.

    While there has been great success in increasing the franchise fee for new (expansion) franchises, there is yet to be evidence of asset appreciation of existing US club soccer franchises, and the subsequent realisation of this value (and profit) through a sale.

    In 1998, Phil Anschutz bought the LA Galaxy for $26 million, a tad over five times what Marc Rapaport and Danny Villanueva’s LA Soccer Partners paid to join MLS.

    Los Angeles Soccer Partners, a group of a dozen or more investors led by investment banker Marc Rapaport, paid $5 million to bring the Galaxy into the league as one of 10 original MLS teams.

    "My heart and my head are in different places," Rapaport said of the sale, adding that owning the Galaxy had been a positive experience.

    "Our investors are happy, and the ones who have come to the games and gotten involved with the team I think share our emotional attachment to the team," he said.

    "But at the end of the day, if we wanted Los Angeles' team to continue to grow and prosper, I think we needed to get it in deeper pockets. The team really needs to go to the next level. Sports is moving in the direction of large corporations and billion-dollar owners, and we're neither."

    ….

    "No one ever went broke selling at a profit," MLS Commissioner Doug Logan said of the reasons behind the sale, adding that he thought it "was consistent with what I believe was Marc Rapaport's and his partners' investment strategy when they first got involved in soccer some three years ago."

    This is not the important point I wanted to make either. This is me just gloating. This information isn’t on Wikipedia, and there are probably diehard Galaxy fans who don’t know that Anschutz was not the team’s original owner.

    But it wasn’t no state secret either, and I wanted to get another good solid kick into DeloitteUK and its water carriers who for months tried to pretend that this termite mound was some kind of groundbreaking scholarship.



    De Bontin was going to run for USSF President, by the way. Heck, he still might. Had Deloitte written a slightly better report, or even if Deloitte had kept it a secret, de Bontin might have used the report to justify attempting to impose promotion and relegation on American soccer. Heck, he or someone like him still might.

    Okay, no, I probably would not have started a multi-part defense of the right of Major League Soccer to protect itself from people like Deloitte and de Bontin had I known that Anthony Precourt, with a considerable and underrated assist from his fellow owners, were planning to replace Columbus Crew Stadium with a Royal Shaft. If MLS is going to act like it’s the NFL, then it should have the NFL’s ability to laugh off stuff like this.

    The NWSL doesn’t, though.

    For those of you just joining us, the “W” in NWSL stands for “What the hell does this chart represent?”

    On page 10, Deloitte informed us that:

    As set out above, the main area of analysis for this report is the professional club soccer pyramid. The scope of this analysis is limited to the assessment of the men’s professional game, and does not consider current state or possible implications of open leagues on women’s soccer.

    And this is the point I wanted to make. Why not?

    Okay, I know why not. It would have been extra work on a subject Mr. Silva was not interested in and not paying to inform the public about. Silva doesn’t tell me how to spend my money, after all.

    But really, why not? Wouldn’t the same array of logic and facts apply to a struggling women’s pyramid as well as a struggling men’s pyramid? Or is there something estrogenal that hinders promotion and relegation? Does promotion and relegation work only in proportion with the convexity of the contents of the players’ shorts?

    These are not academic questions, although I phrased them rather snottily. Silva commissioned this report as a lead-up to taking the USSF to CAS Sport Court a few months later.

    The complaint does not allow for the USSF, CONCACAF or FIFA to make exceptions for women’s leagues. Because, well, duh. Try writing a regulation that specifically discriminates by sex. You won’t be able to see the inside of the courtroom you’ve been hauled into for all the camera lights flashing in your face.

    However, if Silva, Dennis Crowley and the NASL are Donald Trump, and the USSF is Kim Jong-un, then the NWSL is a McDonald’s in Seoul.

    Is there a Nobel Prize for Metaphors? Because just give me the medal now.

    Anyway. If the CAS ends up hammering the Fed and the Confed, then I have every confidence that the breathtakingly rich owners of Major League Soccer will respond according to their capabilities, limited only by what they deem appropriate. The earth shall be scorched, natch, but post-Precourt I care about that a great deal less than I did a couple of weeks ago.

    The NWSL would have no recourse. The USSF runs the league and schedules the games. The NWSL may be the least independent league in the country. There would be no wiggle room – the NWSL would promote and relegate with either UWS or WPSL.

    To my knowledge, nobody involved with any of those leagues has expressed any desire to promote and relegate with each other. It’s almost as if those leagues and those teams have their own agendas and goals that don’t need to be dictated from Chicago, let alone Zurich.

    “So don’t promote amateur teams.” Very sensible, except I don’t think that’s what Dennis Crowley signed up when he added his team to the complaint. Remember, promotion and relegation is supposed to spur interest and investment. It’s supposed to help teams transition from amateur to professional. We can’t very well exclude the teams that would benefit the most, allegedly, now can we?

    This pretty much sums up the spirit of blithe incuriosity around the entire project. All Silva wanted was to buy Deloitte’s name and attach it to “Promotion and relegation is good.” DeloitteUK answered the call as poorly and lazily as they could possibly have gotten away with, and Silva wasn’t even interested enough to proofread.

    And it worked. For months afterward, the executive summary was cited as actual evidence everywhere from coaches’ conferences up to the Daily Telegraph. The executive summary didn’t stand up to scrutiny, but there must have been something behind it. A Big Four firm wouldn’t put their name and reputation on nonsense, would they?

    In a just world, DeloitteUK would face significant consequences for this. I believe that’s why they waited months to release the full report, and to be honest I don’t understand why they ever released it. They must have assumed no one would actually bother to read the thing. They severely underestimated their unintentional comedy.

    I, at least, consider the matter settled. A billionaire paid one of the largest accounting firms in the world to gather evidence for a popular and widely-held prejudice. And this is what they came up with. In the words of the philosopher Snider, if that’s your best, your best won’t do.

    Aw, cheer up. Maybe the next billionaire will do better with the next international finance corporation. But for now, we’ll have to settle for dull, plain old ordinary facts. Bigfoot did not kill John Kennedy. Super Bowl XXVI was not played at Stonehenge. And promotion and relegation has nothing to offer American soccer.
     
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Comments

Discussion in 'Articles' started by Dan Loney, Oct 27, 2017.

    1. USRufnex

      USRufnex Member+

      Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
      United States
      Jul 15, 2000
      Tulsa, OK
      Club:
      --other--
      #2 USRufnex, Oct 28, 2017
      Last edited: Oct 28, 2017

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

      By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
      Part 7 = Six parts too many... yawn.

      http://worldsoccertalk.com/2016/11/...ssf-holding-back-growth-soccer-argues-report/
      Dan Jones, Head of the Sport Business Group at Deloitte, said of the report’s findings:
      “The current closed system has served MLS well in its early years, but as it matures it is reaching member capacity, preventing further expansion. Other challenges facing the current structure include growing fan interest in overseas leagues such as the English Premier League and a stagnation in the number of players annually registered with US Youth Soccer. The number of registered players has barely risen since 2000 despite vastly increased rates of participation in high schools.

      “Though the US soccer league system may not be ready for such a move immediately and its implementation may not appear urgent, the topic is worthy of greater exploration and debate. US soccer should properly consider the merits of introduction of promotion and relegation and a transition plan for its successful introduction in order to drive US soccer forward.”


      "Why couldn’t you beat a richer club? I’ve never seen a bag of money score a goal." – Johan Cruyff

      Meanwhile, in lower division open league action:


      http://www.skysports.com/championship-table

      # Team Pl W D L F A GD Pts Last 6
      1 Sheffield United 14 10 0 4 20 12 8 30
      2 Wolverhampton Wanderers 14 9 2 3 25 15 10 29
      3 Cardiff City 14 8 4 2 18 10 8 28
      4 Bristol City 14 6 6 2 22 15 7 24
      5 Leeds United 14 7 2 5 22 14 8 23
      6 Aston Villa 13 6 4 3 19 13 6 22
      7 Derby County 13 6 4 3 19 14 5 22
      8 Norwich City
       
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    2. USRufnex

      USRufnex Member+

      Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
      United States
      Jul 15, 2000
      Tulsa, OK
      Club:
      --other--
      #3 USRufnex, Oct 28, 2017
      Last edited: Oct 28, 2017

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

      By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
      Meanwhile, in Australia...

      ‘The Championship’: Promotion and relegation from 2024
      By Daily Football Show
      October 27, 2017
      http://dailyfootballshow.com/the-championship-promotion-and-relegation-from-2024/

       
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    3. barroldinho

      barroldinho Member+

      Aug 13, 2007
      Ex-pat in HB, CA
      Club:
      Manchester United FC
      Country:
      England
      #4 barroldinho, Oct 30, 2017
      Last edited: Oct 30, 2017

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

      By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
      Yet you commented on just about all of them.

      Recent events in my life have put doe-eyed infatuation with sports in stark perspective, however I have made some recent observations:

      A few weeks ago, my Man United played defensively against Liverpool, gaining what in the grand scheme of things, amounts to a valuable point. It's a shame it wasn't a nail-biter, especially as the fixture has been for generations, arguably the biggest in English football. People were up in arms that the as-yet undefeated Man United, continued to be undefeated by virtue of some rather pragmatic tactics. But in a double-round-robin, single table competition, it's the points that count.

      Then we lost to Huddersfield and despite the strong start to the season, there were people actually suggesting that Mourinho should lose his job. It occurred to me at that point how ludicrously lopsided these leagues are, where a team is deemed so strong that a single defeat is seen in some quarters as a sacking offense.

      Meanwhile in recent seasons, I have been treated to a phenomenal set of NBA finals between the Cavs and the Warriors, while the current World Series has me (and I honestly never thought I'd find myself saying these words) gripped by baseball.

      Ultimately, for all the "clever" banners saying stuff like "United, Kids, Wife in that order", or "You can change your wife or your religion, but you can never change your football team" (where do you stand on the Chicago Fire these days?), the real reason for that is that our teams aren't actually so integral to our lives that there's often cause or justification to change them.

      A team isn't a philosophy on the nature and/or creation of the universe that you may decide no longer lines up with your beliefs.

      A team can't truly leave you widowed. Even if a Precourt yanks it away, it may suck, but when the dust settles, it basically leaves you with a window in your free time. It doesn't leave you sobbing in the frozen food aisle of Vons because you've just realised there's no point in picking up her favourite flavour of Outshine bars.

      Bottom line: This is entertainment. Fandom is self-serving because it adds to the entertainment by putting more at stake. In the last decade, I've seen the team I've followed since I could walk win Champions Leagues, run over the competition in the league, field some of the best players on the planet, yet the US approach has provided me with more genuine excitement overall.

      And please don't talk to me about the need to have a club within spitting distance of your local hamlet, when American soccer fans frequently choose European superclubs over anything local. Before you cite the Barca fans that go to Athletic games with you, I've got similar friends going to Galaxy games but many don't and almost all would look at you like you had three heads if you mentioned OCFC. (crap, I know of plenty of lower league clubs with scant followings in England).
       
    4. USRufnex

      USRufnex Member+

      Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
      United States
      Jul 15, 2000
      Tulsa, OK
      Club:
      --other--
      #5 USRufnex, Oct 30, 2017
      Last edited: Oct 30, 2017

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

      By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
      I point out in my posts how horribly one-sided Bigsoccer has become in allowing one person's anti-Pro/Rel viewpoint (vendetta?) to predominate in its blog posts. Mr Loney posting his critique(s) of the Deloitte report in 7 extraordinarily anal-retentive parts has got to rank as one of the most self indulgent, self aggrandizing things I've ever (not) read on Bigsoccer.... I made it through the 1st installment and a paragraph or two into the 2nd one... but after that... geez, louise...

      Don't try to lecture me again, you pompous bag of wind... I had the distinct displeasure of having to deal with your perpetually argumentative bullshit over the course of a couple of years (and that of a condescending little clique of anti-Pro/Rel trolls in a bigsoccer subforum I'm no longer allowed to participate in even after fully serving a month long ban).... I am a middle-aged colon cancer survivor, so I sure as hell understand the place the sport of soccer ultimately occupies in my life. It's been a part of my world ever since falling in love with the sport as a kid from Tulsa. How effing dare you try to give me personal advice or lecture me... again.

      You don't even know me.
      And, if I'm lucky, you never will.

      It is not PRIMARILY entertainment, or at least it shouldn't be. In it's proper context, it's identity... and it's community. It's competition. And it's rivalry. At its best, it's tribal. It's an escape... It's a set of athletes trying to best another set of athletes in a fiercely competitive setting. It's rooting for the underdog. And it's about supporting your home club, whether that club is in your hometown, your home state, or your adopted home city or state or an adopted team you chose from overseas...

      Damned skippy l will talk to you about the need to have a competitive LOCAL CLUB within close proximity which I, and every other soccer fan in this country, can support LIVE and IN PERSON. Yes, it's entertaining to watch the best clubs in the world on television but it can never fully replace the thrill of watching the sport in the open air with your friends, drinking beers and jeering the opposing players and their goalkeeper.

      Honestly, who the hell do you think you are to be so presumptuous?
      The lack of respect you describe for what OCFC is trying to achieve is a testament to the systematic attempts by MLS over the past 20 years to cheapen all American pro soccer that is not MLS.

      I don't have any Barca fans who go to A's games with me. I know many people in northeast Oklahoma who support any number of EPL and Bund teams, a cross section of folks who also happen to be fans of college football, major league baseball, the NFL, the NHL, the state's NBA team, the local hockey team, and even NASCAR and college wrestling. They cannot be conveniently stereotyped as anglophiles or europoseurs, but strangely enough, they still don't hold their regional MLS teams in KC and Dallas with the same esteem and respect they have for other major league teams in other American sports, while simultaneously expressing a preference in soccer for the passion, talent, and traditions they see overseas... and it sure as hell is not your place to determine whether my city (or Louisville, or Memphis, or Fresno, or Wichita, or Chattanooga, or Des Moines, etc etc) is worthy of an exciting and competitive team playing at the highest level of sport.

      When a bartender made me feel guilty after I asked whether the winner would get promoted from AA to AAA next year, I decided to go see the Tulsa Drillers in games 4 and 5 of their Texas League Championship series against the Midland Cubs.

      To say I was underwhelmed would be an understatement.

      The game was, as you say.... entertainment... an LA Dodgers farm club representing a metro area of one million people, playing at home in a championship series in a cozy little downsized state-of-the-art minor league baseball facility with just about every amenity any fan of minor league baseball could ever want, yet there were tons of empty seats because that "championship series" really doesn't have much more entertainment value when compared to Buck-a-Brat, Dollar Beer and Bark-in-the-Park nights.
       
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    5. mschofield

      mschofield Member+

      May 16, 2000
      DC
      Club:
      Union Berlin
      Country:
      United States

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

      By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
      The A league has 10 teams. This would, in theory, add another 10 teams.
      These clubs are now, according to the article, "can begin to register their interest in participating in the proposed competition from December, with the window closing in May next year.
      Those clubs must be able to meet prerequisites including a 3,000 capacity boutique venue, the ability to budget $2.5 million annually and pay a licence fee of $150,000."
      FYI the equvilent operating budget for US teams (compariing MLS to A-league revenue, to make the lower clubs comparably competitive) would be $11 million a year, and the stadia (comparing attendence) would have to seat 4100. Cheap entry fee, though.
      Still, the goal in Australia, is a total of 20 teams.
      Do you actually believe that a first and second 10 team setup gives young players more exposure to playing against top competition than a single 20 team setup?
      If MLS tops out at 28, or 32 or 36 clubs, whatever it is, isn't that a better setup for young players than half or two thirds of those players playing in lower leagues?
       
    6. USRufnex

      USRufnex Member+

      Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
      United States
      Jul 15, 2000
      Tulsa, OK
      Club:
      --other--
      #7 USRufnex, Nov 1, 2017
      Last edited: Nov 1, 2017

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

      By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
      Yes... go on...

      You're losing me here, though... I find translating a proposed Aussie standard into a hypothetical American one with Pro/Rel not particularly valid, IMHO... why would any American ownership group ever decide it would be wise to operate with a budget of $11 mil per year and play in a stadium with a 4100 seat capacity?

      Australia is a much less populous country than the US and doesn't have any teams in their league from Canada.

      I'm not an expert on Australian soccer, but would guess the concept revolves around the best 10 teams in one league with a second division league of 10 teams nipping at their heels will result in a higher level of concentration of player talent in the top league than in a single closed league of 20 teams.

      I've stated before that I think MLS shoulda stopped at 20, or at the most, 24 teams. In addition, I believe a 10-team MLS in 2002 had a higher concentration of domestic American talent than a 22-team MLS has in 2017.

      MLS expansion hasn't dramatically increased the domestic player pool in America. If it had, I'd be the first to agree with your assertion that 28, or 32, or 36 teams playing at the highest level is better for the most talented American players to play in than a first division of 10, or 12, or 20 teams.
       
    7. mschofield

      mschofield Member+

      May 16, 2000
      DC
      Club:
      Union Berlin
      Country:
      United States

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

      By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
      There are currently 71 MLS players who have been capped by the USMNT. There are a further 10 players now playing overseas who previously played, and started their professional careers, in MLS. And that's just the national team. Look at US players with each club. I'm suggesting you do that, I did it for SKC, and there were l6 US-MNT eligible who don't have senior callups on the roster, and another two who were born and grew up in the US but opted to play for other national sides. So, from on club, that's 22 US citizens who had a chance to develop
      Overall, there are 660 roster spots in MLS and 176 of those can be filled by international players, meaning 484 slots are reserved for US and Canadian players.
      Official roster size was actually smaller ten years ago, 28, so when MLS had 10 teams, 2005, say, they had had a total of 280 roster slots (more players, of course, as some left and were added over the course of a season as is the case today) and also allowed 8 internationals per club, meaning there were a total of 80 int slots, so 200 US players getting a chance at the highest level.
      Now, you may be correct. The concentration might be slightly different, I don't think it is, but maybe I'm wrong. But I would argue that 486 is more than 200, and I feel pretty good about that argument.
      MLS has vastly increased the size of the US domestic player pool. It's a simple fact.
       
    8. BalanceUT

      BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

      Oct 8, 2006
      Appalachia
      Club:
      Real Salt Lake
      Country:
      United States

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

      By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
      Let's suppose that Pro-Rel is somehow forced on the American Soccer Pyramid (such as it is). This is what will happen, step by step, because owners are going to protect their investments against all attempts to diminish value (If value must be diminished, they will choose the path of least diminishment) and most players really are just making a living, few are stars for contending national teams:

      1) Owners say NO to Pro-Rel.
      2) When the USSF says, "Then, we are forced to decertify you" MLS owners say: "Go ahead, we already have a governing office in New York"
      3) Some players may leave because they can no longer play in their national teams, but many will say, "I'm getting a regular paycheck that is a very good paycheck, I'm not going to sacrifice my family's life and livelihood on the altar of FIFA, so I'm staying where the money is." The reason for that is simple: You'd be surprised how many teams around the world don't actually make their payroll regularly. Players know this. One of the reasons that MLS does so well recruiting from Central and South America is for that simple fact.
      4) MLS will become increasingly the uniquely American form of soccer by recognizing that MLB, NFL, NBA do quite well without any interaction at all with pesky rule-making bodies elsewhere in the world, and the corruption that often follows.
      5) Players will still transfer back and forth with Europe and elsewhere, because teams want to make money and find talent. Players will be deemed not-responsible for MLS's not following international 'standards' (that are not really standards), and eventually allowed to play on national teams regardless of these issues.
      6) And all will be well in the world, except that the MLS will no longer have any fealty to USSF or FIFA.
      7) At that point, USSF may well elevate a league to D1 status... Then things will get real.
       
    9. barroldinho

      barroldinho Member+

      Aug 13, 2007
      Ex-pat in HB, CA
      Club:
      Manchester United FC
      Country:
      England

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

      By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
      You know what mate, I didn't mean to lecture.

      They were more observations born out of certain things that have happened in my life recently.

      And FTR, I know I've taken the piss and at times I've taken it too far, so I apologize for that.

      On Cancer, that's a horrible disease and I've seen close family and friends battle it, I'm sad to say sometimes unsuccessfully. I'm sorry that you or anyone else has had to go through that.

      The "United, Kids, Wife" banner sticks in my craw, because I'd happily delete soccer from my life in exchange for one more minute with my soulmate.
       
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    10. Zoidberg

      Zoidberg Member+

      Jun 23, 2006

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

      By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
      When the US didn't qualify I was dissappointed but not as upset as I wuld have been when much younger. Why? Things happen in life and you come to understand just how trivial sport is. I pretty much stopped following all sports, except for soccer here, because I am more interested in seeing how it grows from scratch. I watch less and less and it definitely isn't must watch anymore. A thank you to the ultimate BS artist JK for putting me over the top on the US team.

      Caring less about these little games is simply an opp to enjoy other things more, and once you are free of the "habit/propganda" of it life becomes more open IMO. Pain and loss can be very enlightening in some ways. Makes you truly understand what matters....and what is childish/inconsequential. My condolences. Don't stop thinking and moving forward. Very important. Easy to say, but I've been through it, and it is a must.

      Best wishes.
       
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    11. Zoidberg

      Zoidberg Member+

      Jun 23, 2006

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

      By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
      On a side note to expand...the pro/rel stuff I have seen on the net is some of the most stupid/vapid/idiotic waste of time I have ever read.

      The insults, anger and vicitimization tossed out by some over this is truly stupifying.

      Pro/rel.....who gives a FK. I have soccer to watch.
       
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    12. Dan Loney

      Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

      Mar 10, 2000
      Cincilluminati
      Club:
      Los Angeles Sol
      Country:
      Philippines

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

      By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
      Thanks for reading, Jeff!
       
    13. USRufnex

      USRufnex Member+

      Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
      United States
      Jul 15, 2000
      Tulsa, OK
      Club:
      --other--
      #14 USRufnex, Nov 13, 2017
      Last edited: Nov 13, 2017

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

      By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
      USRufnex said: "I made it through the 1st installment and a paragraph or two into the 2nd one... but after that... geez, louise..."

      ...and thank you for not posting Volumes 8 & 9 which you had threatened to do previously.

      JEFF
       
    14. Dan Loney

      Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

      Mar 10, 2000
      Cincilluminati
      Club:
      Los Angeles Sol
      Country:
      Philippines

      Deloitte UK's Promotion and Relegation Report - Part 7

      By Dan Loney on Oct 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM
      Makes me smile every time
       

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