Comparison of confederation results

Discussion in 'World Cup 2018 - Russia' started by Brasitusa, Jun 20, 2018.

  1. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    SF North Bay
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    I don't think a separate (from the World Cup) inter-continental tournament will ever gain much traction in Europe. I think the only way there can be more inter-confederation competitive matches is if the World Cup is played every two years instead of every four years. UEFA of course, would again be the strongest objecting party to that, although with the expansion to 48 teams, it is possible that the lower tier UEFA teams might be persuaded to support it if UEFA s slots were expanded to say, 20 places out of the 48, with several of those being half places to be earned via inter-confederation playoffs.

    The clubs, of course, would not like the idea, although if it replaced the Euros they might not care that much.
     
  2. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    I actually dont mind a WC every 2 years, but only if it was 32 teams.

    I would then keep the confederational tournaments, but have them double as WC qualifiers. Dont need to play seperate Confederational tournament and WCQ, have one tournament serve both purposes.
     
  3. guri

    guri Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    I think your issue might be related to grass. Ask Fifa to give you a couple of millions to fund a study. Might be worth looking into it. :)
     
  4. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    I am not sure I like to take away from what makes the World Cup special, namely the fact that it take place just every 4 years, or reduce the excitement of even the World Cup qualifiers, by making it every 2 years. I guess I just find some wisdom in the idea that if something ain't broke, don't fix it.

    I concede that the idea of an Intercontinental Cup will likely not get traction in Europe. It is meant to address a problem that is particularly relevant to the lesser and less experienced confederations, most notably the AFC and CAF, who suffer from this issue the most. But the idea still has something in it for everyone else too.

    For FIFA, the Intercontinental Cup can bring more games and more money in its coffers. For the lesser, less pedigreed UEFA sides, it can give them bragging rights and their fans a tournament to follow as they gear up to watch the World Cup. The same for Conmebol sides and the others too. What will become important is to make sure this tournament doesn't somehow affect or take away from the World Cup itself. The same way the Europa Cup doesn't and shouldn't take away from the Champions League.

    That is a detail that can be addressed. Even without the Intercontinental Cup, the last rounds of the UEFA Champions League already take place too close to the World Cup during the World Cup years. I think everyone should work to create a bit more space between those schedules and once every 4 years, for the World Cup during the summer, leave out the month of May completely outside of the calendar. If that is done, and the initial Intercontinental Cup involves fewer teams than I suggested (e.g., 16 as opposed to 32 as mentioned by another poster here), then we could avoid any conflict with the World Cup altogether.

    Anyway, this idea arose initially from something Richdog posted and I found it promising and meritorious. I at least hope we get something like this going.
     
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    #430 Iranian Monitor, Jul 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    Anyway, to go back to comparing the different confederations, let me summarize my view of on how I saw these teams through the grades I give below. These grades take into account the matches played at the World Cup but aren't only on that basis and try to take a fuller view of the strength of the teams I have seen at this tournament.

    UEFA:
    1- France (A-) 2- Belgium (A-) 3- England (B+) 4- Spain (B/B+) 5- Croatia (B) 6- Germany (B) 7- Portugal (B-/B) 8- Russia (B-/B) 9 Sweden (B-/B) 10- Denmark (B-) 11- Switzerland (B-) 12-Poland (B-) 13- Serbia (B-) 14- Iceland (B-).

    CONMEBOL:
    1- Brazil (A-) 2- Uruguay (B) 3- Colombia (B) 4- Argentina (B) 5- Peru (B-)

    AFC:
    1- Japan (B-/B) 2- Iran (B-) 3- Australia (B-) 4- South Korea (C+/B-) 5- Saudi Arabia (C+)

    CAF:
    1- Senegal (B-/B) 2- Morocco (B-/B) 3- Nigeria (B-) 4- Tunisia (C+/B-) 5- Egypt (C+)

    CONCACAF:
    1- Mexico (B-/B) 2- Costa Rica (C+) 3- Panama (C/C+)
     
  6. Amir14

    Amir14 Member

    Mar 10, 2012
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Africa was lucky until 2014. They always avoided the non-seeded strong South American teams despite having an inferior head to head record against Asian teams at the WC. No wonder they had the worst performance in years this time.
     
  7. TheHitman47

    TheHitman47 Member

    Jan 14, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    How have African teams had an inferior head to head record against Asian teams. Nigeria never lost to an Asian team and we could have beat Iran in 2014. Your team is ok but you snuck that win against Morocco.

    FIFA and ELO also show this as well.

    In 2014 our teams were undefeated against Asia with 2 wins and 1 draw.
    Ead
     
  8. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    #433 Iranian Monitor, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
    Actually, in overall World Cup head-to-head record between CAF and the AFC, he is right. The record between the two was dead-even before WC2018, with CAF making up the difference that existed in Wc2014. But after Wc2018, the record now again is in favor of the AFC.

    My overall assessment, however, isn't changed and I refer to what I posted earlier in terms of how I see these different teams. Particular results in football are often the product of bounces of the ball and a lot of extraneous stuff. Some of it is easy to catch while others aren't because a mili-second decision, pass, blocked ball, or something can be the difference between a clear chance/goal and nothing.
     
  9. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    Difficult to ask FIFA for a WC-B, just to subsidize additional matches for a few FAs.

    A key route for improvement is youth development. Gotta export players to Europe via club transfers. That's how your NT players get meaningful matches, when your NT cannot contract proper friendlies.

    IRN made it to u20 WC for 2017, after a 16-year absence. Need to do it more frequently, in order to earn international exposure.

    VEN faces a similar problem: lack of competitive friendlies, low rate of player exports. Too few to catch up with top-5 in Conmebol.

    So what is its current mitigation plan? Carve a space for itself at youth tournaments. VEN club transfers spiked after each u20 WC appearance (2009, 2017).

    Chile took notice in 2017. Its u20 project is much better this time, and it looks to be a contender for u20 2019 qualifiers.

    This is what I mean when regional minnows raise their game: it has a ripple effect across a confederation, pushing fellow members to do so. Even at youth level.
     
  10. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So Asia has the slight edge over Africa. How does Concacaf weigh in?

    Going back 1998 here are the results.

    Concacaf v Asia
    4W 1L 1D

    Concacaf v Africa
    3W 3L 2D (the Tunisia win over Panama made it even)
     
  11. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    Thanks for the tips, but transfer of Iranian players to any prominent leagues or clubs faces its own political and sanctions issues. Based on a post from you earlier before the World Cup, it is clear to me that you don't appreciate how the sanctions regime against Iran works. Suffice it to say, while Trump has come and made things much worse, Iran was already under severe primary US sanctions even after the nuclear deal known as the JCPOA. The JCPOA reduced some of the secondary sanctions (attempts by the US to tell others how they can deal with Iran), but it had virtually no effect on primary US sanctions (except in a couple of specified areas). And those sanctions, and the numerous (and ever growing) list of Iranian organizations blacklisted by the US and which have direct or indirect interest over many companies and entities in Iran, along with the fact that advertisers often have American interests and holdings, and even top European clubs usually have a board member who happens to have US citizenship or permanent residence (making them "US persons" under primary US sanctions), means dealing with Iranian clubs directly for such transfers is always a hassle none want to go through. The fact that virtually no major banks handle transactions involving any Iranian entity or Iranian person resident in Iran makes it even harder. Otherwise, Iran used to have more players in top European leagues than any other side in Asia. But these days, for an Iranian player to have any hope of making it in any serious clubs, he will first need to move to a minor club in some backwater region, establish residence outside of Iran, and make sure the transfer doesn't involve money to an Iranian club either. Even then, with the situation that is developing, many prefer not to take on the 'reputation risk'.
     
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  12. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    Dude.... transfers do not have to be money-based.

    A player can be contracted by another club, on a free transfer.
    This occurs with lots of youth players anyways, who increase their hiring chances via free agency.

    Develop your youth talent, and export it.
    Do not wait for FIFA/rest of the world to create a WC-B.
     
  13. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    First, those who develop talents (clubs) usually don't want to export it for free. They pay for these talents to play for them. We do have a lot of free transfers take place because of what I alluded to, but even those ultimately will have to be with minor clubs and leagues and do involve money being transferred. If not to their clubs, then to the player himself (who is also an Iranian person for purposes of these sanctions as long as he hasn't yet established residence outside of Iran).. No player who wants to go to a top league or club with multinational dealings will be free from the constraints I mentioned.

    Second, the idea of the Intercontinental Cup isn't something for Iran, which has qualified more or less regularly to the World Cup. It is to make sure the standards in the game are raised for the confederation as a whole, raising the competitive level and consequently the game for everyone in Asia. Iran would benefit indirectly but it might even suffer in the short run as some of its lesser rivals gain more experience.
     
  14. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    Of those 4 wins, 3 were by Mexico:
    Mexico 3 S.Korea 1 (Wc98)
    Mexico 3 Iran 1 (Wc2006)
    Mexico 2 S.Korea 1 (Wc2018)

    Don't remember off hand the draw right now, but do remember Concacaf's loss well:)

    p.s.
    I remember the draw now too. Basically, unlike Mexico, the record for the US against the AFC is 1 loss, 1 draw.
     
  15. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    Good luck with the Intercontinental Cup.
    UEFA+Concacaf+Conmebol will not eradicate their continental tournaments for a WC-B. They also want to pay the bills for themselves.

    No professional club wants to export players for free, but that is how you make your way into the big-boys table.

    VEN continues to suffer that. Youth players are benched as they demand to be let go as free agents. They end up hired as free agents anyways, and money goes into a foreign bank account, to avoid VEN gov't controls on US dollars.

    Do not assume that IRN is the only football market with financial plights.
    Many people are eating a crap sandwich out here, but there are solutions though.

    Develop your youth players. Uruguay does this very well, and its regional rivals are looking to copy its model.
     
  16. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    Last thing I want to say about the Intercontinental Cup idea is this: many UEFA/CONMEBOL fans and members presumably like the alternative (which is the path we are heading towards with World Cup expansion) even worse. But without something like an Intercontinental Cup, you are not going to have dozens of members with passionate fans not lobby hard to see their sides get to the World Cup too. And since some of them have a lot of room to grow and develop, and can bring a lot of money to the game (e.g., China), they will be able to push their views enough. In the process, we are getting to get a more watered down World Cup, which isn't what I want either.
     
  17. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    Incidentally, Iran's own H2H record against teams from the so-called lesser confederations at the World Cup is as follows:

    Against CAF: 1W-2D-0L
    Against Concacaf: 1W-0D-1L
    Overall: 5GP: 2W, 2D, 1L

    Our record against UEFA/CONMEBOL, on the other hand, is as follows:

    Against UEFA is 6GP: 0W-2D-4L
    Against CONMEBOL: 2GP: 0W-0D-2L

    That said, some of the performances that fill me with the most pride when it comes to our team were against UEFA/CONMEBOL even if the result didn't favor us. They include our game against Yugoslavia in Wc98 (1:0 loss); our game against Argentina in Wc2014 (1:0 loss), our game against Spain in this World Cup (1:0 loss) and to a lesser extent our 1:1 draws against Scotland in Wc78 and Portugal in this tournament.
     
  18. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #443 Footsatt, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
    Last I checked Mexico is a Concacaf team.

    The one loss was back in 1998 against Iran. At this time MLS was 2 years old and the US team was not very good this cycle, and the results in 98 help prove this.

    The tie in 2002 was against S Korea at home. This is a good result for an away team playing in the WC.
     
  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    No need to get defensive; no one said Mexico wasn't in Concacaf.

    But if you really want to know how things look today, and compare confederation records, you would do what I did in one my earliest posts. I will post it again below for the lesser confederations, which involved plenty of games from the group stage and a large enough sample overall.

    For the AFC:
    AFC v UEFA
    8GP: 1W-2D-5L
    AFC v CAF
    3GP: 2W-1D-0L
    AFC v CONMEBOL
    3GP: 1W-0D-2L
    AFC v CONCACAF
    1GP: 0W-0D-1L
    Overall:
    15GP: 4W-3D-8L
    --------------------------
    For CAF (for record against AFC, see above):
    CAF v UEFA
    8GP: 2W-1D-5L
    CAF v CONMEBOL
    3GP: 0W-0D-3L
    CAF v CONCACAF
    1GP: 1W-0D-0L
    Overall:
    15GP: 3W-2D-10L
    ---------------------------
    For CONCACAF (for record against AFC and CAF, see above)
    CONCACAF v UEFA
    6GP: 1W-1D-4L
    CONCACAF v CONMEBOL
    1GP: 0W-OD-1L
    Overall:
    9GP: 2W-1D-6L
    --------------------------
     
  20. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    #445 Rickdog, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
    Conmebol, will go wherever the money is.
    (Don't speak on behalf of those, you don't represent).

    Remember we (as Conmebol), already have given chances in the past for "weak Concacaf", to play with us (inviting some of their teams in our tournaments). Even allowed them to host a tournament of ours (Copa America Centenario), as long as money keeps pouring into our pockets...., where of course some of our teams, also thrashed their best teams.:cool:

    For the case, if FIFA see's it as another "fountain to make money" there, it will also go with it, faster than whatever you may think so.
    ;)
     
  21. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Seems you don't know much about Venezuelan players playing elsewhere, here is a list of all of those who do (of course most of them play in smaller leagues or lower categories, but they are trying to get better) :

    http://gradadigital.com/home/le/lista-de-legionarios-perfiles/

    Compared to other Conmebol teams, might be lower, but with absolute certainty, they are not at the bottom with the less exports
     
  22. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    Gotta give you that one. Conmebol does love money. I believe Qatar will play in next Copa America 2019, right?
    Good on you for letting it play in your prestigious tournament!

    BTW, your sugar daddy Concacaf has told y'all to bring Copa America back to the US.
    Must be hard to keep paying lawyers since 2015. The USDOJ sends its regards.
     
  23. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Sure,
    it's about the same thing as inviting the USA.

    Just a diferent type of "weakling", getting invited.

    You are the one very confused here.
    We'll see, who is "sugar daddy" to who.

    Without Conmebol, in this equation, Concacaf has nothing.

    While Conmebol can seek for the money "elsewhere".
    Maybe Conmebol is "lobbying" to have a Copa America, in the near future, in Asia instead....,
    :rolleyes::sneaky:
     
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  24. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    Must be an obsolete list... with several guys who are closer to 30 years old and were in the foreign market for several seasons now.

    Case in point: all 4 guys in Spanish 1st division, wiped out after being relegated / sent to the bleachers last semester. 1 might play 1st division right away, Rosales who is 29.5 years old currently. The young Penaranda left for England, currently under evaluation.

    I was telling our Iranian friend about exporting youth players, not old dudes. Cannot make your NT stronger if you export old players, don't you agree? Won't beat the top-5 Conmebol teams with old dudes either.

    Even the top veteran players on that list, they left VEN clubs as free agents. Rosales was an exception, though.

    Come up with an actualized list, and you will see a worrying trend for VEN transfers... turning away from UEFA and going into MLS instead :eek:

    How's that for ignorance about Conmebol transfers?
     
  25. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Inviting Qatar is not the same as inviting the US. In 2016 the US finished 4th above 7 other CONMEBOL nations.
     

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